dhx rc4 boost valve?

bog

Likes Bikes
its to hot to ride so i started fooling around with pressure adjustments and bottom out knob,
my questions are-

1 does increasing chamber pressure increase compression damping throughout the stroke,
and decreasing the chamber size will this increase the progression of this damping?

2 wont turning the knob all the way in- increase the pressure and effect both damping and progression?

3 whats the difference between running say 200psi and no turns to 150psi and 4 turns?
 

driftking

Wheel size expert
The blue adjustment in the end if bottom out control not boost valve.
Boost valve is the pressure in the chamber.

The BV pressure offers over all support for the shock and on the rc4 can be used primarily as mid stroke support and ending stroke support.

The BOC changes the progressiveness of the shock towards the end of its stroke. The BOC is the last adjustment.

By adding BOC you are decreeing the chamber size so the pressure builds up quicker preside will change the over all feel where more BOC will be more prelevant towards the end during ramp up.
I'll try find my previous post in a thread about the shock and post it here.Give me a few minute.

Basically LSC is low speed shaft movements and HSC is highspeed shaft movements (this does not mean the bike speed although this will have affect as I will elaborate on later)

HSC - this controls virtually all the bumps and rock gardens you encounter, it controls the harshness felt initially or the initial compliance in the shock to forces and over all travel use in rock gardens and rough terrain. I.e you want the suspension to use appropriate travel, if a bump requires 3inches you want to use 3inches no more no less.

LSC - This controls the body movement and momentum shift on the trail so under pedaling LSC can be used to control bob, Under braking LSC can be used to control dive. Set this up to avoid too much dive or travel use under body movement like smooth corners and pedaling/dive. This is also used in wallowing holes.

Rebound- Obvious one this one, the rate at which the bike rebounds, if you have too much rebound dampening (too slow) the bike will pack down, this means that the suspension wont recover enough from a previous hit before it hits another one which means the suspension continues to get lower and lower in its travel. Not enough dampening (too fast) the bike doesn't settle in its travel and you loose traction and you get a harsh or unstable ride.
A good way to understand packing is if you use 3 inches then it rebound 2 then you hit another bump you use another 3 then rebound two. as you can see using 6 and rebounding 4 means that the fork is packing down (getting lower). You want a balance.
some people run very soft suspension and use faster rebound to account for the excess use, while others like my self use a stiff set up and use slower rebound.I prefer the stiff set up, It results in a bike that skimps over holes rather than falling in them, it also helps keep geometry stable.

Bottom out control - BOC controls how much the suspension ramps up towards the end of its travel.
Pressure - the pressure in the shock chamber controls the overall dampening of the shock but can primarily be used to control support in the suspension. I use about 170. Always stay within the recommended ranges.

brief explanation of pressure and BOC use.
Lets assume you have the right spring rate and set the HSC and LSC and rebound up correctly as these are the simple ones.
If you find our are using too much travel in the rough you need to up your HSC, however if upping the HSC makes the bike harsh on square edge hits or in the rough, instead try upping the Pressure. By upping the pressure you are placing more support in the shock and you should notice that you use less travel but the bike is not harsh as HSC is kept the same.

If you find you are still bottoming out on big hits but again changing HSC or upping pressure makes the ride too harsh or too stiff, this is where you use the BOC, this will make the ending stroke of the shock ramp up more.

Now if the following is confusing or you cannot grasp the idea than disregard it and just go on everything else in the post.

Now there is some cross over with HSC and LSC depending on your riding speed. The faster you are the harder you hit things the more velocity is put through the suspension. This becomes a issue as slow riders will be relying more so on LSC than HSC, as you become faster more bumps become HSC and less become LSC, so for a slow rider who is trying to control support and bump absorption it becomes difficult as slower riders, more bumps are LSC. More support means more LSC but more bump absorption means less LSC. So there will be some cross over. The the faster the rider the less cross over there is. So being a fast rider actually makes suspension set up and performance easier.
Ie. slow riders 50% is HSC 50% is LSC. now you are trying to control 50% of bumps with LSC and your also trying to control momentum and movement with LSC so this means the LSC is stretched between two things with more compromise. As you get faster more bumps become HSC so the faster you go you might end up with bumps being controlled by 80%HSC and 20% LSC, this means that the LSC can be focused on its job rather than bump absorption, hence less compromise.

I hope that helps.


Now the information I received in regards to my set up on the commencal is as follows. note: this is assuming you have the right spring rate.
Air pressure, start with 150, run higher pressure for more support / mid-speed compression and to increase the end stroke control. For HSC, start mid range, negative 6 clicks. For LSC, negative 6 to 8 clicks. For rebound, start with the adjuster negative 6 to 8 clicks.

When it says negative, you need to turn the adjusters to full on or full positive and count backwards clicks. As for BOC this is dependent on the bike, start with BOC zero (-4) and adjust as you test and tune.
 
Last edited:

bog

Likes Bikes
WOW fingers of lightning!!http://www.rotorburn.com/forums/images/smilies/2012/target.

well done mate
1 paragraph caught my attention
"Lets assume you have the right spring rate and set the HSC and LSC and rebound up correctly as these are the simple ones.
If you find our are using too much travel in the rough you need to up your HSC, however if upping the HSC makes the bike harsh on square edge hits or in the rough, instead try upping the Pressure. By upping the pressure you are placing more support in the shock and you should notice that you use less travel but the bike is not harsh as HSC is kept the same."

the old girl is an izimu, im about 95kegs and have a 350lb spring on her
i had the sag at about 35%, lsc-5, hsc-4, rebound -5, 150psi and BOC-2 to control the rear and stop her bottoming on the bigger hits,
that causes her to be to harsh over smaller stuff, i dropped the lsc & hsc a bit to hook up and track better but then would blow through travel to much when speed incrased
i might try an increase in pressure and wind the boc out full and see how that goes
should i re-adjust the chamber pressure after winding in the boc or leave it
(if 1 had say 180 at -4 what would it be at 0 if i didnt adjust the pressure, i dont know if it will bring it up above 200)
 

CresoDH

Likes Dirt
well done mate
1 paragraph caught my attention
"Lets assume you have the right spring rate and set the HSC and LSC and rebound up correctly as these are the simple ones.
If you find our are using too much travel in the rough you need to up your HSC, however if upping the HSC makes the bike harsh on square edge hits or in the rough, instead try upping the Pressure. By upping the pressure you are placing more support in the shock and you should notice that you use less travel but the bike is not harsh as HSC is kept the same."

the old girl is an izimu, im about 95kegs and have a 350lb spring on her
i had the sag at about 35%, lsc-5, hsc-4, rebound -5, 150psi and BOC-2 to control the rear and stop her bottoming on the bigger hits,
that causes her to be to harsh over smaller stuff, i dropped the lsc & hsc a bit to hook up and track better but then would blow through travel to much when speed incrased
i might try an increase in pressure and wind the boc out full and see how that goes
should i re-adjust the chamber pressure after winding in the boc or leave it
(if 1 had say 180 at -4 what would it be at 0 if i didnt adjust the pressure, i dont know if it will bring it up above 200)
I would try a bigger spring at 95kg you should be using a 450lb at least a 400lb, iam just under 70kg & use a 350lb .
 

driftking

Wheel size expert
well done mate
1 paragraph caught my attention
"Lets assume you have the right spring rate and set the HSC and LSC and rebound up correctly as these are the simple ones.
If you find our are using too much travel in the rough you need to up your HSC, however if upping the HSC makes the bike harsh on square edge hits or in the rough, instead try upping the Pressure. By upping the pressure you are placing more support in the shock and you should notice that you use less travel but the bike is not harsh as HSC is kept the same."

the old girl is an izimu, im about 95kegs and have a 350lb spring on her
i had the sag at about 35%, lsc-5, hsc-4, rebound -5, 150psi and BOC-2 to control the rear and stop her bottoming on the bigger hits,
that causes her to be to harsh over smaller stuff, i dropped the lsc & hsc a bit to hook up and track better but then would blow through travel to much when speed incrased
i might try an increase in pressure and wind the boc out full and see how that goes
should i re-adjust the chamber pressure after winding in the boc or leave it
(if 1 had say 180 at -4 what would it be at 0 if i didnt adjust the pressure, i dont know if it will bring it up above 200)
Did you change LsC and HSC at the same time? You should only change one thing at a time.
It could be you need more HSC again or pressure, it could also be spring rate, you are getting lots of sag and at speed the spring might not offer enough support. Do you run any preload?

If you want to start from scratch start with the reccomendations at the bottom of my post. They came from ken at tekin for a non tuned rc4 so it will work will any factory tune.
Then adjust your rebound, followed by LsC and HSC, pressure should be next then BOC.
I'm not familiar with the frame but 350sounds light for 95kg. I'm on a commencal which has a low leverage and run a 250lb spring at 60kg I'm thinking of going to 275.
 

SideFX

Likes Bikes and Dirt
well done mate
1 paragraph caught my attention
"Lets assume you have the right spring rate and set the HSC and LSC and rebound up correctly as these are the simple ones.
If you find our are using too much travel in the rough you need to up your HSC, however if upping the HSC makes the bike harsh on square edge hits or in the rough, instead try upping the Pressure. By upping the pressure you are placing more support in the shock and you should notice that you use less travel but the bike is not harsh as HSC is kept the same."

the old girl is an izimu, im about 95kegs and have a 350lb spring on her
i had the sag at about 35%, lsc-5, hsc-4, rebound -5, 150psi and BOC-2 to control the rear and stop her bottoming on the bigger hits,
that causes her to be to harsh over smaller stuff, i dropped the lsc & hsc a bit to hook up and track better but then would blow through travel to much when speed incrased
i might try an increase in pressure and wind the boc out full and see how that goes
should i re-adjust the chamber pressure after winding in the boc or leave it
(if 1 had say 180 at -4 what would it be at 0 if i didnt adjust the pressure, i dont know if it will bring it up above 200)
Harsh on square edge hits and hooking up ? . Try less low speed compression .
 

bog

Likes Bikes
Spring maybe higher than rated

with a 350lb spring & +1 preload i get about 28mm of sag when standing in a neutral position
the leverage ratio is 2.7-1 (i think)
after some beer and a bit more tinkering (beer and suspension:bounce: a very good combo)
i ended up with hsc-6, lsc-9, reb-6 180psi and boc+2
" at speed the spring might not offer enough support"
this seems to be the case, i might put a 400lb spring in her and tinker a bit more
a higher chamber pressure definately felt a lot better
AH!! the joys of tuning suspension
thanks for the tips and info gentlemen.
cheers
ant
 
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