Bruce Ridge a.k.a O'connor Ridge Official Thread

[ratchit]

Gents, gents, let's not get personal. From what I'm reading we're all coming from roughly the same direction. We all love riding O'Connor's and appreciate it for what it is; some great "untamed" (Boy is that a cliche' now) singletrack right in the middle of town that lets you get out there for half an hour's ride, clear your head, forget the bullshit and ride a bike for a while instead of hanging out the washing.

For the record of our little community, I've blocked off one crap track (definitely bike made) that went straight down the hill and went absolutely frigging nowhere for about ten yards. The rest of my "labours" have involved moving stuff out of the way like after that storm we had a couple of weeks ago and a couple of rollovers, including one that used to go over the log in one of your pictures before it got worn down, Wassa. Let's not accuse each other, I don't think we're the culprits.

 

[WildWassa]

rachit, some body is the culprit.

"And as for turning into a nanny state, Wildwassa aren't you the guy who takes down the numberplates of people who walk their dog without a leash at stromlo, then report them to the cops?" - Ross.

What would be the point of telling the cops? You tell me Ross, I'm all ears Mate.

I have no problem with dogs under control at Stromlo. None what-so-ever. Ross, please do not imply that I do.

I notice on the Scott site, the organisers request that dogs not be taken to Stromlo. Don't they say on that site, "Dogs and bikes don't mix," or something similar? Maybe I'm not the only person who has hit a dog not on a leash at Stromlo.

Who runs the Scott, Ross ... the cops or ACT Dog Control?

I suggest you take a cheap shot at the organisers of the Scott as well ... for consistency.

Warren.

 

['Ross]

Alright, not the cops but this was the statement I was referring to:

I've always got my camera with me to photograph dogs, their owners and their car registration plates.

Seemed odd that you were compalining about the area having an un-natural feel and how we are turning into a nanny state, yet you are the one playing Inspector Rex out at Stromlo.

Whatever the case is (and I don't really care to be honest) if you want to change something out there or feel that something is a problem, how hard is it to go fix it yourself? Anything that helps to improve the area will be seen as a positive move, there is no point getting frustrated and angry over a few sticks and logs.....especially when there are the big issues in life such as dogs running around at stromlo

 

[WildWassa]

There you go Ross you caught me out, good for you. Are you one of the dog runners Mate, did I hurt you and your mut's feelings? ... sorry.

Riding on Bruce and O'Connor Ridges is not illegal, because the trails there are dual purpose trails.

It is only advised by Canberra Nature Park to stay on the management tracks because because people are still trail building ... like putting up log barriers hey Ross?

There are sign on the ridges saying tracks are dual purpose. That information is from the Canberra Nature Parks after I requested a clarification as to whether it is illegal to ride on the single tracks of O'Connor and Bruce Ridges.

I'd prefer to ride on O'Connor and Bruce Ridges having them looking still like bush tracks

Rather than this, having barriers that serve no purpose.

The only trails I've seen blocked off are the small alluvial fans made from run-off and the animal tracks, both acused of being bike tracks. It appears that paranoia rides out on the ridge ... because something might take a short cut, like some rain water or an echidna. I didn't start riding these ridges yesterday.

Warren.

 

[FR Drew]

Warren, 95% of the tracks on Bruce and O'Connor ridge are not legal and are not authorised dual purpose trails approved by PC&L, they have been illegally built but dovetail with the legal network in a manner which makes it impossible for riders to know when they leave the original (and very limited) legal trail network.

This being the case, while you may be able to claim ignorance or confusion as a defence, at present, by either building, working on or riding on the trails out there you are breaking the law.

 

[WildWassa]

" ... while you may be able to claim ignorance or confusion as a defence, at present, by either building, working on or riding on the trails out there you are breaking the law."

I was told by a Canberra Nature Park Ranger only an hour ago, "it is advised to stay on the management tracks," because of illegal track builders possibly creating hazzards." I am not tampering with the bush or trail building. I do not claim ignorance or confusion, I'm only relaying what I was told is now the case.

I realise that the original dual purpose track can no longer be determined. I requested to see up-to-date maps of the ridges and I was referred to the circa 2002 maps and the UBD of Canberra.

Drew, can you give me access to the perfect maps because you appear to be such an expert. Unless you can show me what is illegal and what isn't ... you have written nothing that I didn't already know.

This thread by delusions of grandeur is called the "OFFICIAL" B aka O'C ridges thread. I want to talk to more officials on this thread not pretenders. Maybe this is more like the officious B aka O'C ridges thread.

Warren.

 

[triples]

Some of the single track on the ridge has been there pre 2002.
I have been advised that you allowed to ride on preformed track.
So it seems know one really knows what the go is.

 

[FR Drew]

" ... while you may be able to claim ignorance or confusion as a defence, at present, by either building, working on or riding on the trails out there you are breaking the law."

I was told by a Canberra Nature Park Ranger only an hour ago, "it is advised to stay on the management tracks," because of illegal track builders possibly creating hazzards." I am not tampering with the bush or trail building. I do not claim ignorance or confusion, I'm only relaying what I was told is now the case.

I realise that the original dual purpose track can no longer be determined. I requested to see up-to-date maps of the ridges and I was referred to the circa 2002 maps and the UBD of Canberra.

Drew, can you give me access to the perfect maps because you appear to be such an expert. Unless you can show me what is illegal and what isn't ... you have written nothing that I didn't already know.

This thread by delusions of grandeur is called the "OFFICIAL" B aka O'C ridges thread. I want to talk to more officials on this thread not pretenders. Maybe this is more like the officious B aka O'C ridges thread.

Warren.

Warren, neither the head ranger for PC&L Northside (who I have spoken to on the issue) or the community liason offier for PC&L generally (who I have also spoken to on the issue) have Farkin accounts as far as I am aware. You may simply have to trust the people who have spoken with these particular senior PC&L staff and take their word at face value. To the best of my knowledge that list comprises Astroboy, Bucket Master and FR Drew.

My understanding as a result of these discussions was that the only multi use trails aside from fire roads in the Canberra Nature Parks are the multi use equestrian/walker/cyclist trails in the CNP's generally and the trails in Bruce and O'Connor Ridge that resulted from the initial multi use cycle track trial.

There is conflicting information available and the precise situation is unclear. A large volume of trail has appeared in Bruce Ridge since the GDE went through and speaking with senior PC&L staff it was made clear that all that newly constructed trail is unauthorised (but they are planning an audit and are investigating the possibility of some of it being retroactively legitimised).

There are no perfect maps avaialble.

It is also worth bearing in mind that you (for reasons of age demographic) are likely to be treated more than somewhat differently to many other mountain bikers using the trails. Rangers may quite possibly let you get away with riding a lot of places where most folks under 40 would have the book thrown at them.

Your precise words to Ross were:

Riding on Bruce and O'Connor Ridges is not illegal, because the trails there are dual purpose trails.

I responded that I do not beleive that this is the case for the vast majority of the trail network as it currently exists. That viewpoint has been arrived at following high level discussions with senior PC&L staff over the course of the last 12 - 18 months. I'm sorry if it conflicts with what you were told by a ranger this morning, and I have no desire to cause you displeasure, I'm simply attempting to pass on the facts as they have been provided to the trails team by PC&L.

 

[Klaatu]

And there you have it Wassa, our trail gurus have again spoken (and had discusssions, that's right discussion!! with PC&L) and as usual mouth the PC line that the trails are unauthorised while dangling a promise of some legitimacy for the trails that many of us on the near northside regularly use. They're even planning an audit, how encouraging is that.

Despite all the bluster, the bottom line is that use of the Ridge remains popular with the reasons shown in the photos you've taken and our official and sometimes officious spokespeople are happy to let it fly low under the radar. Just wait until they discover the makings of the odd trail I stumbled on in a nearby reserve the other day - that might set off a much more apoplectic reaction.

While trails on the Ridge are a good ride for users, most are unauthorised although some tinkering occurs from time to time (some good some not so good as you've argued above) Am happy to show you the remnants of the dislocated multi-use trails if genuinely interested and take you through the full history if interested.

Don't be daunted, however, as age discrimination probably plays in both your favour and mine if Drew's comments are to be taken seriously. Why I'd even be prepared to cop a fine for the number of times I've enjoyed a ride and the have yet to encounter a ranger on them.

Perhaps a genuine Ridge user group could be formed to meet with rangers, comprising MTB and other users (yes runners and walkers also use the single tracks from time to time) and even trail builders (if we can flush them out as they may be prepared to take ongoing interest in maintenance) to work on a management strategy that recognises the uses of this public space and encourages these activities in a environmentally sustainable way. Suggest current trail reps need not apply or there'll be more piss and wind and too little done.

Come in spinner.

 

[FR Drew]

Klaatu and warren, you both seem very enthusiastic.

The trails team is short staffed especially when it comes to forcing Bruce and O'Connor ridge access onto the PC&L agenda and moving things from a discussions to developments phase. It's not a PC&L priority, they have lots of other stuff to do, but it could certainly be moved well up the agenda with suitable encouragement being applied

Love to have you on board if you're interested.

If you want to organise and lobby external to CORC, that's fine too.

Things have been a little off the boil while the head of the trails team was trying to get stuff organised for the Wolrd Championships. We could definitely use more passionate riders who want to get areas like this developed as the things to do list is growing, not shrinking.

 

[WildWassa]

FR Drew, do you know who made these tracks?

Thanks for knowing how old I am, but do you actually know who it was who made these tracks that people now ride?

I do ... do you?

I don't view these tracks as illegal or legal tracks ... I only know them as the historic tracks on the mountain.

Who do you reckon built these tracks ?

Why do you think that I have such an interest? Inquireing minds want to know.

I'll tell you something Digger, ... we were mountain biking here decades before CORC even existed ... do you get it?

Warren.

 

[cam-o]

F@ck me dead - you two need to go have a beer (or a ride, or a ride followed by a beer) and stop e-bitching at one another. Must be hard to type one handed while you're beating your chests with the other. This is ridiculous.

 

[WildWassa]

F@ck is spelt like this ... 'fuck', as in fuck-off cam-o.

 

[WildWassa]

cam-o, Yeah right Mate!

Warren.

 

[Steve-O]

Dogs and bikes don't mix," or something similar?

Not a shot at you in any way but the quote is "Dogs and several thousand mountain bikes dont mix".

 

['Ross]

Yes, great point about these style of sticks...they are rubbish and do nothing besides potentially endanger riders if you hit them at the wrong angle and stack it.

But there is not much point preaching it here, Im sure nobody here has built things like that, if you ride the ridge so much you will probably come across these people and can give them a few pointers about what they are doing and that its not really of any use to anyone.

As for my dog point, I've never owned/had as a pet a dog ever! I was just trying to show its a bit rich to have it both ways with your 'nanny state' views.

Don't take what people say here too seriously, Im sure in fact that overall we are all in agreeance on most things, but its pretty hard to get these things across effectively, and its always fun to have a stab at someone on the internet

 

[FR Drew]

FR Drew, do you know who made these tracks?

Thanks for knowing how old I am, but do you actually know who it was who made these tracks that people now ride?

I do ... do you?

I don't view these tracks as illegal or legal tracks ... I only know them as our historic tracks on the mountain.

Tell me all about our tracks Sunshine ... and I'll pass them onto me' ol'-Mates ... we will all get warm and fuzzy about what you dictate to we builders.

Who do you reckon built these tracks Sunshine?

Why do you think that I have such an interest? Inquring minds want to know.

I know the track builders personally, some are my cousins and Mates.

I'll tell you something, ... we were mountain biking here decades before CORC even existed

Warren.

Warren,

You may have read my post with a certain pre-conception and mis-understood my meaning.
I'm not patronising you and have no intention of doing so. The only reason I can make a guess at your age is because you've stated previously in other threads how long you've been riding. Like it or not, a bloke in his 50's or 60's doesn't get treated the same by rangers as an 18 year old kid.

The new noodle tracks along the eastern side of the GDE near Bruce Stadium are all of 2 years age, far from historic. They may be replacing older similar trails, but they're new and fresh and flowy and built by someone who knows their trail building, not a relic from back in the day.

I've asked on here time and time again if the people who built the trails could come forward so we could discuss things with them. If your mates choose not to do that, then don't come getting all belligerent at me that I don't know who they are. It's by their choice, not through dint of no effort on my part. Some of the stuff they have made is awesome flowy singletrack. Love it. Props to them. Would prefer that it was authorised so that we could keep it long term and not piss of the land managers with it though.

I'm not dicating to you. Re-check the thread and you'll see that I'd actually encouraged Ross to tidy up a few of the dodgy crap trails out there so that if an audit happened we'd be better placed to get support for the well built and sustainable sections.

Like it or not, PC&L are the people who control the Canberra Nature Parks, not CORC, not you, not your buddies. They don't like the high impact of extensive trail building that has occurred in a small area recently and it's making cyclists look more like a pain in the arse than a legitimate user group who can work with people to gain access.

You said that riding all of the trail network was legal when I was of the belief that it wasn't and that it's setting the process of getting access back (something that we're swimming uphill on and need all the Government and Department support we can get for if it's to get through). I made a contradicting statement based on the information I have been supplied with. Sorry if you don't like that. It's what I've been told by the Ranger in Charge of Northside in PC&L.

I want us to be able to get legal access there and in other areas of the CNP's. For that we're asking for some degree of rider compliance when it comes to further building.

As far as riding there is concerned:
For my money, it's legitimate to say that you entered the area on a trail that stated that cyclists were permitted and that you hadn't realised the new track you were on wasn't part of that same trail.

 

[ratchit]

Jesus Christ, I've had enough reading this thread. Think I'll just go for a ride on the ridge.

 

[caak]

Plenty of passion... however lacking some action.

Too much focus on the past, not enough proactive discussion on the future of legal single track within Canberra Nature Parks.

Are we going to band together and work towards a legal trail network on the Ridge?

So Ross and FR Drew, what is the expected outcome of posting this thread?

FR Drew, what is going on with the CORC Trails team, I offered to assist... but everything has gone flat line? (assume the Bucket Master's commitment to the Worlds is the cause)

Carn boys.. we all want the same thing, don't we?

 

['Ross]

Went for a ride today, first time in a few weeks and some strange things are going on.

Firstly the more popular DH trail is in shocking condition, its always had some bad ruts in areas, but now they are really terrible, since I last rode this track they have deteriorated massively.

This rut was always annoying, but it has completely opened up now, from the frist corner where you pick your line for the little drop you pretty much get sucked into it now and drift the whole way down, its very hard to avoid at speed...

And if you manage to avoid it and hit the small drop you land in....you guessed it, more rut!

So at this point you would think that without major work people should just stay off this whole section of trails, its just going to get worse and cause more damage...BUT, it appears somebody else is already on the case.

Does anyone from CORC know about this? Someone has painted fluro X's all over various trees that are on the trail edges, its obvious someone is about to cut down all these trees and remove some rocks that have also been marked, some were definately not there last time and Im pretty sure they are guides for demolition rather than 'watch out for this tree' kinda markings.

I assume Wildwassa will be interested if about 15 trees are going to go down, as will Corc if they don't already know about it.

Here is what Im talking about....

There were heaps of trees marked along the DH trail, only the ones that sort of impede the trail but not really, and it looks like they want to make the whole thing wider, I can vaguely remember some trees being painted before, but not this many.


And finally here is a little fella I spotted, unfortunately I scared him and he went into curled up ball mode, but he sure was a cute little guy when he was walking around...