AM Bike handling question

[mrx78u]

Hi,

I've just built up my first AM bike, ghetto spec 2007 reign X (160mm), I've always ridden hardtails and normally ride a 2011 trance X (~130mm). I've noticed with the reign that it becomes hard to lean the bike in beyond a certain point, I guess it's around the 40 degree mark. I don't notice this trait on my trance. I was wondering whether this was to do with the slacker head angle than i'm used to (67 degrees vs 69 degrees) or if there might be something else contributing to this such as tyre selection, stem/bar combo, etc. Is this just something I should get used to?

Thanks.

 

[driftking]

Hi,

I've just built up my first AM bike, ghetto spec 2007 reign X (160mm), I've always ridden hardtails and normally ride a 2011 trance X (~130mm). I've noticed with the reign that it becomes hard to lean the bike in beyond a certain point, I guess it's around the 40 degree mark. I don't notice this trait on my trance. I was wondering whether this was to do with the slacker head angle than i'm used to (67 degrees vs 69 degrees) or if there might be something else contributing to this such as tyre selection, stem/bar combo, etc. Is this just something I should get used to?

Thanks.

My money is on body position on the new bike.

When you say you cant lean it in what is happening is the bike sliding out/ what end is loosing traction?

 

[mrx78u]

My money is on body position on the new bike.

When you say you cant lean it in what is happening is the bike sliding out/ what end is loosing traction?

Traction is awesome. It's just like I hit a certain point when throwing the bike into a turn where my previous bikes will keep leaning deeper into the turn in but the reign's turn in seems to become very slow. Hard to explain. May well be a body positioning issue.

 

[fridgie]

Could be the rear sussy compressing through the turn?

I've noticed my enduro feels very different to my hardtail through corners, but in a better way....

 

[driftking]

Could be the rear sussy compressing through the turn?

I've noticed my enduro feels very different to my hardtail through corners, but in a better way....

+1 definitely a possible cause which will just come down to getting used to it.

Also whats your set up like if you are running to much rebound the shock wont settle into the corner.

 

[mrx78u]

+1 definitely a possible cause which will just come down to getting used to it.

Also whats your set up like if you are running to much rebound the shock wont settle into the corner.

So, sounds like I should be spending a bit more time to get the suspension dialled. Also my first bike with a coil rear, so I don't really have a feel for that either.

when you say too much rebound, do you mean too much damping (too slow) or too fast?

Sent from my GT-I9210T using Tapatalk

 

[Nerf Herder]

too slow re: rebound^^

I was thinking stem length ... which would be the body positioning mentioned earlier

 

[driftking]

too slow re: rebound^^

I was thinking stem length ... which would be the body positioning mentioned earlier

too much rebound means too slow but I messed that up I meant too fast.

If its too fast it wont settle so while you are still leaning into the corner the suspension will want to uncompress to early.

I think its wise to go read some suspension tuning threads or videos and go have a test and tune day if not a few days of riding, more time on the bike might actually fix the issue itself. if you are still having the same problem see if you can take some video of yourself and post it up.

make sure you are not braking either that will immediately want the bike to stand up.

 

[Ivan]

Somewhere around the range your talking about (67° to 69° headangle) bikes seem to start responding to steering inputs differently.

As the angle reduces (down to 67°) bikes seem to respond better to less handlebar input and more lean angle. This sort of change is especially noticeable if you switch between a XC race bike and a DH race bike.

With your Reign, try leaning the whole bike (laying it over) into the corner rather than turning it using the handlebars as much as you normally would.

 

[bikeyoulongtime]

With your Reign, try leaning the whole bike (laying it over) into the corner rather than turning it using the handlebars as much as you normally would.

Riding a 2005 vintage reign this approach works well. Mine is 150mm up front, short shocked - which equals a degree or so slacker and some distance lower than standard. With 780mm bars the thing just wants to drag the bar ends through corners.

...and all the other advice re suspension is also great!

Finally - how fast are you going compared to the trance? A steeper bike will behave much more nicely at sub-warp speeds. Until I get it really honking, my reign is a bit of a pig. At speed, it comes alive and is a different (more easily piloted) beast by far! But lets just say my shoulders are now a lot stronger from wrestling with it on slower trails...

hope that helps!

 

[Rhys_]

I think you guys are onto it.

6 months ago I went from riding a hardtail to a 6" all mountain bike. There was only about 1 degree's difference in the static headangle, but obviously dynamically the new bike rode a lot slacker.

I found on some corners, the front end would 'understeer', much like a car would. It just wouldn't turn in the way I wanted to (and the way it did on the previous bike), so I found myself running slow and wide out of corners, not really cutting in and through them like I used to.

What I found helped was being really aggressive with body positioning. I specifically focussed on keeping my weight forward, so I could be really aggressive with the front wheel through the corners, to really force the issue - lean, turn and push the front through. As I got used to the bike, my speed coming into the corners picked up, and this helped with the slacker front end like the others said. Eventually it became second nature and I cut through the corners much like I used to, but still really focus on weighing that front end.

 

[Wiffle]

I think a large part of it, as others have said, is the change in geometry requiring a different turning style. Lean rather than turn, and use counterpressure (sometimes called counter steer) to attack the corners; in other words, if you want to turn left at speed, stomp on your right pedal and push forward and down with your left hand at the same time. Once you sight the exit of the turn, get your weight over the back wheel and push the back end around. Try it; it works!!

 

[driftking]

I think a large part of it, as others have said, is the change in geometry requiring a different turning style. Lean rather than turn, and use counterpressure (sometimes called counter steer) to attack the corners; in other words, if you want to turn left at speed, stomp on your right pedal and push forward and down with your left hand at the same time. Once you sight the exit of the turn, get your weight over the back wheel and push the back end around. Try it; it works!!

two different things I think but yes commonly used interchanged. My understanding.

counter steering is the turning of the bars in the opposite direction to turn initially the wheel then flops over. To turn a bike at speed you have to counter steer its just we do it subconsciously, however if you pay attention you can purposely employ it to get better cornering turn in and hit corners faster.

Counter pressure is exactly what you are referring to in that you put pressure into the what you want to turn which digs the tread into the ground. You can see that the two actions are very similar but one is employed initially the other is during cornering.

My view on them though, I find it helps avoid confusion to by isolation those two actions as they really are used for two different things



Op I actually had the same issue going from my old freeride bike for downhill to a proper downhill bike, I didnt really think about it previous when I replied as I was focused on your AM.
However the much longer and slacker geometry really made the bike feel like a bus at first and a hand full to turn, you just need to really lean the bike in and balance your forward pressure. The bikes really require more input from the rider due to the less nimble geo. If you are keen throw on some body armor find a smooth corner that wont hurt if you come off and just go nuts hitting it and getting low.

Remember body position, hips over the bike.
While I am a 50/50 fan of james this video is pretty good. It looks really weird but if you look at the pros they all employ this sort of technique.
[video]http://www.pinkbike.com/video/181079/[/video]

Example

 

[mrx78u]

Wow, more feedback here than I expected, thanks!

I'll have a play with some of these tips and the shock setup as well. I do tend to corner by leaning the bike and weighting the outside pedal already, but I'm not sure if i'm countersteering to initiate the turn as I would on the moto. Oddly though, thinking about it, it almost feels like the weight i'm applying to the outside pedal is countering the amount of force i'm able apply through the bars to twist the bike, which seems doesn't seem likely if I think about the leverage I should have through the 740mm bars vs the leverage through the pedals.

 

[driftking]

You are countersteering when ever you turn a bike. Its the only way for it to turn. You can do it more consciously to get a bit more of a turn in.

If you want to test it jump on te bike and roll at a slowish but fast enough speed with the tire straight now without moving the wheel left at all try to turn right by tuning te bars right only you will fall to the left.

If you watch your bars when you turn normally you will Notice you always countersteering before turning.

 

[richie_gt]

To the OP I wouldn't be overly concerned about 'lean angle' - every bike is different so it will give you a different feeling!

Do you think you are cornering slower on the new bike?

I'd be concentrating on your weight distribution through the corner, keep the bike evenly weighted! Brake before the corner - then ride through it, as others have said you should be able to push through the corner and come out at speed!