Fox- is it just the short way of saying 'sub-standard suspension'?

[Psimpson7]

Yep, just saw a review on flow of the new Intense Spider. Price? $16,500.

$9499 USD in the states.

What a joke! Even that is bad enough but $16.5kAUD is laughable .

 

[slimjim1]

Another Fox supporter here. Their pre '15 stuff was very ordinary I think everyone can I agree. The new Fox stuff is great! I changed from a Monarch to a Float X2 and the damping difference is huge. I went from '15 36s to Pikes which are good but underdamped still. I didnt see what the hype was about TBH. So going back to 36s for added stiffness and better damping I feel. Fox does have a dark past but their new stuff is pretty damn good and I think Rockshox are playing catch up.

Must admit, last couple bikes have had pikes, but the new 34's do feel good (only tried the non-kashima FIT4 version too).

 

[schred]

16K for a new bike hey. No denying mtb is more popular than ever, but that sounds like an FTR type business model to appeal to a niche market, and it may work for them too. For joe average with negative wage growth looking to take the old mtb for spin, forgeddaboudit.

What were we debating again? Must be time for a new seat post size.

 

[johnny]

I ride the shit 32s that came with my bike and the shit thing about them is that they are shit. But I'm the kind of rider that prefers to focus on my riding skill than compensate with expensive kit (translation: my wife won't let me buy nice things).

 

[link1896]

I agree with the general sentiment here, though fox have improved their game over the last few years. Fork service intervals are now generally 120 hrs, where they used to be 30hrs.

Fox will sell some parts and tools direct inside the USA, our distributor in aus makes life hard for the LBS and won't help beyond the basics, and seems to be very light on for parts.

SRAM/RS has taken the other approach which we all like, full docs, all the parts and tools you desire.

I would suggest Fox MTB products are over engineered, over complicated, and this has dictated a closed service/parts arrangement from necessity, not choice.

I'm sure the suspension tuners all cringe when a TALAS fork turns up for rebuild. " fuck that Fred, I'll rebuild 8 Rockshoxs, two marzocchi and a lefty, you rebuild the TALAS".

 

[shake_rattle_and_ roll]

Goddamit Johnny- so it's you who coined the "Run What You Brung" phrase, isn't it?

But seriously, I totally get people working with what came on the bike. One of the more interesting things though, that I alluded to originally, is the phenomenon of people getting repeatedly burnt not necessarily by their expectations but by the brand itself. Must be the same types who keep going back to an unfaithful lover who keeps cheating on them. Seriously though, I get a distinct sense that if Fux were a penis or a vagina then, base on their track record, they'd never be getting any action.

 

[will2]

I've had a thought. There really needs to be a part of a forum somewhere dedicated to the technical details of servicing a product. IE: Someone can completely open their Fox fork and show whats there with detailed photos and annotations. Going through how to do various services, fixes that sort of thing.

I know plenty of folk on here are mechanically minded/mechanically learned and are happy to rip their stuff to bits do please, that would be great.
Just compile the thread with peoples addition and add it to first post.
I would start it off but I only have a 05 Revelation at the moment. Not exactly helpful.

 

[creaky]

the phenomenon of people getting repeatedly burnt not necessarily by their expectations but by the brand itself.

That's me with fox 32s. Been rehashing a set of 2011 RLCs that were warrantied twice including full new lowers and uppers a year ago (at reasonable reduced cost to me). 14 months later the stanchions are munted again.

.... now, when does the 2017 fox stuff come out ..... :twitch:

Seems kind dumb and I should probably just grab another SID at half the price, but ...

That factory 2011 RLC fork has been a great feeling/performing fork (although I have just lost rebound damping). The factory CTD was shit in comparison, so is my 2015 SID rtc3. New Fit4 stuff is reputedly back being to a quality damper.

 

[shake_rattle_and_ roll]

I've had a thought. There really needs to be a part of a forum somewhere dedicated to the technical details of servicing a product. IE: Someone can completely open their Fox fork and show whats there with detailed photos and annotations. Going through how to do various services, fixes that sort of thing.

I know plenty of folk on here are mechanically minded/mechanically learned and are happy to rip their stuff to bits do please, that would be great.
Just compile the thread with peoples addition and add it to first post.
I would start it off but I only have a 05 Revelation at the moment. Not exactly helpful.

Floated the same idea of creating a Tech Section with Scott back in 04/05ish when I was up in Qld for a DH event (either T'ba or Ipswich- can't remember which). Think it'd be the accuracy of submissions & ability to verify as quality content which might prove problematic. But, yes, in essence it would be of value to RB users.

 

[Warp]

Yep, just saw a review on flow of the new Intense Spider. Price? $16,500.

And the POS doesn't even have XTR Di2!

Another picture footnote relevant to this thread... "The best – FOX 34." :doh:

 

[link1896]

Floated the same idea of creating a Tech Section with Scott back in 04/05ish when I was up in Qld for a DH event (either T'ba or Ipswich- can't remember which). Think it'd be the accuracy of submissions & ability to verify as quality content which might prove problematic. But, yes, in essence it would be of value to RB users.

It's not a problem for technical sections on other websites, I.e automotive. We have enough active members here to call BS on any bad info pretty quickly

 

[Mywifesirrational]

Yep, just saw a review on flow of the new Intense Spider. Price? $16,500.

You can get the poor mans version / spec with an alloy frame for 2k usd from jensons at the moment which is pretty decent, if one doesn't need the latest and greatest.

 

[shake_rattle_and_ roll]

And the POS doesn't even have XTR Di2!

Another picture footnote relevant to this thread... "The best – FOX 34." :doh:

Driiippppping in Fox. Based on what a few people are saying about the improved gen of Fox product, then I'll give Fox the benefit of the doubt...but boy, if they're still avo & mongoloids are happy to drop $16.5k, well, I imagine it'd generate a similar reaction to Trump having a running shot at Presidency...oh wait a minute.

Could this mean that the Intense Spider 27.5C might just become the Drumpff of the modern MTB era? Imma go my popcorn ready.

 

[BT180]

Saw the date on that Intense review on Flow and thought it must have been a gee up. Apparently not!

I've been using an '08 Revelation and and DHX 5 coil on my current bike, but I've been very much looking forward to the '16 Fox 36 and Float X my new bike is coming with. Reviews on the new 36 are pretty glowing but it seems they're a lot more difficult to set up and get fine tuned than a Pike. Apparently the new models don't have he issues the older CTD models have.

Just hoping I can set it all up right and it's going to be amazeballs, as reading the comments in this thread has be worried!

 

[The Duckmeister]

Fox defender here.

Their air sprung cans work, they don't leak air, and in the right frame don't bottom out harshly. OTOH, no one I know is happy with a monarch which turns any dual suspension into a hardtail in feeling, but a downhill bike by performance.

Rockshox forks however are the duck nuts, especially RCT3, and ease of servicing/parts

I've found, both from my own and customers' experience, that Fox rear shocks tend to suit lighter riders, while the Monarchs are better for the heavier guys. The Fox have lighter breakaway & more suppleness in the top stroke, which suits the lighties (like me), but blows through too soon for the heavier dudes, while the monarch is the opposite - better support in the top & mid-stroke, which is good for the porkers, but too firm & chattery for flyweights.

As for forks, they've both had their good & bad eras. There was a time when I was just starting the conversion from roadie when RS were considered technified spaghetti for all the stiffness they didn't have, while Fox were the duck's nuts, and then CTD came along and Fox lost the plot, and RS found it.

 

[pink poodle]

One of the things that has perplexed me for years is that unlike the other major suspension suppliers/developers in the mtb market, who've done an incredible job of asserting their position & demonstrating their commitment to the sport through repeated development, refinement, innovation & increased quality, Fox has done an extraordinary job of under-developing & under-delivering (particularly over the last 8yrs) on a scale which has enabled companies like Vorsprung, Push & Mojo to have profitable businesses based entirely around making Fox's shit-ball products better/work on a level that barely brings them up to the standard of the other majors (RS in particular). Yes, I know, there are one or two exceptions in the coil-sprung rear shocks. And yet people stick with Fox like Yeti owners stick with their turquoise fantasy, dumping a small fortune on their suspension to then go out & dump a testicle/ovary so as to buy a Push/Mojo dampening unit or Vorsprung corsets to fix a product that should've worked (& I mean on a fundamental level) from the outset.

Are Fox completely taking the piss out of mtbers, or do Fox simply recognise that there's an abundance of mongoloids out there who don't know any better?

Can someone please explain because I just don't understand how a company like Fox continue to make such crappy products these days? Nor do I understand why riders bemoan their Fox suspension, yet then go out buy Fox suspension again. What gives? I just don't get it.

I must be missing something. I've got a fox rears on both my bikes, and fronts on one. I've used a lot of their stuff over the years and always been stoked with the feel...even when I've had warranty issues (twice with a fox vanilla 160 about 10 years and once with a fox Talas 160 last year). I will always love the classic feel of Marzocchi the most, Italians know how I want it.

Do I need to reassess my life?

 

[slimjim1]

I will always love the classic feel of Marzocchi the most, Italians know how I want it.

I'll never forget some of those Italian made 66's and 888's of the early to mid 2000's. I may be wearing the rose-coloured glasses but my god they felt great. Some of the youngsters I ride with have a tainted view of Zocchi, having only got to experience the tail end of the Taiwanese made base model DJ forks which sucked balls. But us old farts know what the real bombers were all about.

 

[merc-blue]

When I started working with suspension the only choice was Fox because they made real dampers with damper technology which could be serviced and tuned with accuracy, RS made unserviceable replace only plastic crap that felt ok but you couldn't do much with and frankly wasn't worth it unless you wanted to make a complete assembly, and thats the same reason why guys like Vorsprung/Push do alot of fox stuff, because you a refining a good product not reinvinting a poor one,
Obviously thats changed with recent changes to RS technology,

2012 Fox Fit damper (redesign of tech from 2005/6)

2015 RS Charger damper

If you ask alot of the guys like push/vorsprung etc why they make upgrades for fox its because its worth upgrading. eg a slight refinement on a compression housing on a CTD vs a complete boxxer cart eg Elka or old school Ohlins etc..

I think the main issue with Fox is OEM/cost, Fox is expensive product, so you buy a 3k bike which comes with a $300 fox shock, you replace it with a $600 RS and it feels great, that comparison makes for some unfair assumptions. eg. you need to compare a Factory 36 to a Pike RCT3 not a Evo 32.


I would also like to add that sometimes other factors come into play eg, that Giant killed RP23s by supplying 1000s of bikes with a shit tune. I spent 2 years of my life retuning 2-5 RP23s a day to suit Giants. The propedal worked on every giant RP23BV but the tune selection and linkage made it totally ineffective.
I think the market is only just starting to understand how complex suspension is,
and with regards to supply of service manuals, I handed out a few bits of info like IFP settings etc for DIYers. 90% of these shocks ended up in the shop getting major rebuilds and often getting binned because the lever of detail required to do a good job is way beyond most shops let alone most DIYers, anyone who has ever bleed a shock the way a RS manual tells you to and ridden it and thought it worked well is on drugs, or doesn't understand anything about bikes

 

[pink poodle]

I'll never forget some of those Italian made 66's and 888's of the early to mid 2000's. I may be wearing the rose-coloured glasses but my god they felt great. Some of the youngsters I ride with have a tainted view of Zocchi, having only got to experience the tail end of the Taiwanese made base model DJ forks which sucked balls. But us old farts know what the real bombers were all about.

My fork wet dream will always be the Monster-T. Nicest feel ever! My recent run with Marz has been sweet. 55 and 66 forks are just superb. I've also got 3 bikes running on Rocco air shocks that are kicking like new...haven't been serviced in about 7 years of use.

 

[Alo661]

What Merc said. RS servicing of dampers didn't exist prior to Charger. CTD was a step in the wrong direction for fox, FIT4 dampers will outperform and outlive any RS product.

My fork wet dream will always be the Monster-T. Nicest feel ever! My recent run with Marz has been sweet. 55 and 66 forks are just superb. I've also got 3 bikes running on Rocco air shocks that are kicking like new...haven't been serviced in about 7 years of use.

Wanta buy a set of Super Monster T's for $350 posted to ya? :spy: