Bonogin (smith road) downhill track - closed permanently

frenchman

frenchman

Eats cheese. Sells crack.
harveyp said:
Mate, your comments directed towards Oppy have overstepped the line!! This is not a Forum for making personal attacks against people who have the same interest as you - getting legitimised downhill tracks approved. Continue down the same path as you have been going and frankly, I doubt there will be any of us 'grey hairs' prepared to put in the enormous effort of establishing dialogue with the Authorities to hopefully, achieve what we ALL want - legal downhill tracks in SE Qld not just Brisbane or Gold Coast.

Oppy was/is an employee of BCC not the Mayor or a Councillor and it was not his doing that resulted in NO action being taken after the review of mountain bike trail access in the greater Brisbane region! If you feel so strongly about this issue, take it up with you local Councillor. Attacking the very people who are trying to make a difference on your behalf is not the way forward and I doubt there would be a rider out there except maybe you, who would not agree with me.

There has been good discussion in this Thread to date and some constructive ideas starting to flow, lets not destroy it by bad mouthing the contributors! The Gold Coast MTB Club annual general meeting is on at 5pm today at the Velodrome in Nerang and I will be there and I will be raising the issue at hand. Our Club has a very long and successful history of working with GCCC and their Park Rangers for the betterment of mountain biking however; as always when working with Government of any form it takes a long time to achieve the target goal and in most cases there has to be compromise from both sides. To openly promote the construction and riding of illegal trails will be a short term fix for those engaging in it but trust me, long term you will suffer even further.

Finally, lets ensure we adopt the tried and trusted, PPPPPPP approach to achieve our goals. Note: PPPPPPP = Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance!!! End of rant from a 61 year old mountain bike tragic!

PS. If you want to bag me then go ahead - I have the hide of a Hippo (and starting to develop a gut to go with it):D
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Same interest as me? I'm not sure if I'm offended or just thoroughly pissed off. Actions speak louder than words Harvey. Or in this case if it will make you happy, inactions. It's been nearly a decade. Brisbane went from having a network of downhill trails to none. There are no shades of grey. It's that simple. Tell me what has been achieved in terms of catering for downhill.

We all appreciate the effort from the 'grey hairs' as you put it liaising with the BCC but nothing will be achieved. Has 10 years of liasing not allowed anyone to fucking realise this? Downhill in Brisbane will not be legalised. The last thing I'm going to do is whinge about an illegal activity to my local member.

Sorry but I'm not going to wait another 10 years for a track to potentially appear on the face of Brisbane. What is short and long term Harvey? It's been nearly 10 years. The sport is only 20-30 years old for fuck's sake. The only way this sport is going to progress in Brisbane at least is through the construction of illegal trails. Not wait another 10 fucking years. Just incase it's still a little ambiguous please do inform me. I'm sure I can organise internet meme to suit.

Every track that is ridden regularly apart from Toowoomba is not legal. These tracks get rebuilt and ridden again and again. If you stop rebuilding there will be no tracks. I can guarantee this. A few friends built the well known tracks at the Gold coast and the Northside of Brisbane a long time ago. If they didn't come back and keep rebuilding when it was needed, most of you probably wouldn't be riding downhill there.

Deadman said:
Deadman
in the last 4-years we've lost Laceys Creek, Dump Run and now Bonogin. In the last 4-years have these tracks been replaced with equally good 'free' tracks on public land? There's not much new digging going on out there! Why not?

Am I being too subtle making the point
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These tracks have all been replaced. They are not free.

You have no idea at the amount of digging that has been going on of late.
 
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harveyp

harveyp

Likes Dirt
frenchman said:
Same interest as me? I'm not sure if I'm offended or just thoroughly pissed off. Actions speak louder than words Harvey. Or in this case if it will make you happy, inactions. It's been nearly a decade. Brisbane went from having a network of downhill trails to none. There are no shades of grey. It's that simple. Tell me what has been achieved in terms of catering for downhill.

We all appreciate the effort from the 'grey hairs' as you put it liaising with the BCC but nothing will be achieved. Has 10 years of liasing not allowed anyone to fucking realise this? Downhill in Brisbane will not be legalised. The last thing I'm going to do is whinge about an illegal activity to my local member.

Sorry but I'm not going to wait another 10 years for a track to potentially appear on the face of Brisbane. What is short and long term Harvey? It's been nearly 10 years. The sport is only 20-30 years old for fuck's sake. The only way this sport is going to progress in Brisbane at least is through the construction of illegal trails. Not wait another 10 fucking years. Just incase it's still a little ambiguous please do inform me. I'm sure I can organise internet meme to suit.

Every track that is ridden regularly apart from Toowoomba is not legal. These tracks get rebuilt and ridden again and again. If you stop rebuilding there will be no tracks. I can guarantee this. A few friends built the well known tracks at the Gold coast and the Northside of Brisbane a long time ago. If they didn't come back and keep rebuilding when it was needed, most of you probably wouldn't be riding downhill there.



These tracks have all been replaced. They are not free.

You have no idea at the amount of digging that has been going on of late.
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Mate, no-one is denying that the lack of approval for construction of tracks/trails by the authorities is frustrating to say the least and yes, the obvious thing to do is just go out and build tracks without their approval. The point I was trying to get across to you is that it is not Oppy's fault that the authorities have not acted in our favour!

You are right in that most of the trails we ride these days are the ones built by you and your mates but unfortunately, a lot of these areas have now been passed over to National Parks and as long as your and my bum points south, we will never get access to National Parks for downhill tracks! As a suggestion, maybe you should be targeting areas that do not attract high volumes of other users eg, walkers, horses and moto riders! The best areas to achieve this is private property and I think that is where the answer to our questions lay - get property owners on board who are prepared to allow us to ride. We will most likely have to pay a small fee to do so and will have to behave ourselves whilst on their property including removing rubbish etc.

At the same time, we will continue to press the authorities for a fair hearing on our needs and if need be, go above the department heads to the top dog. Just as a point of interest, I think if the authorities could read these Forums they would be delighted to know they have got us arguing with each other and this in some small way represents a win for them!!

The Gold Coast Club is looking at some other opportunities besides Illinbah and again, these will be on private property - more to come in due course.
 
J

jody263

Likes Bikes
Oppy

Oppy

Likes Dirt
Top work Jody. Here is an opportunity to be part of the process in defining the future management of forest areas for mountain bike riding. If you want to be part of the process get your submission in.
 
intenselife

intenselife

Likes Dirt
Oppy said:
Top work Jody. Here is an opportunity to be part of the process in defining the future management of forest areas for mountain bike riding. If you want to be part of the process get your submission in.
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"Submissions closed 7 April 2008" That's what it says on the bottom of that form.
I with frenchman, build it, ride it and live your life. Government is not going to sort
downhill tracks for us.
:)
 
Deadman

Deadman

Likes Dirt
jody263 said:
i searched mountain biking on gccc and found this,seems they are in the process of expanding mtb riding areas,this may be our chance to be heard....
http://www.goldcoast.qld.gov.au/att...r-beechmont-mt-nathan-conservation-report.pdf
be sure to fill out the REGISTRATION OF INTEREST FORM AT THE BOTTOM :)
seems aimed at xc but worth a shot

http://www.goldcoast.qld.gov.au/att...han-conservation-reserves-management-plan.pdf
4.10.1.4 is the mountain biking section
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It does look like the submission date has long gone. But you do get an understanding of the complex, long winded process if you have a spare hour or two to read it. I got a few things from it -

They like to get feedback from locals. They see mountain biking as XC this is good because that is where the clubs and numbers are. But they are unaware of the special needs of DHers. How would they know if we don't get involved and tell them our needs. They probably don't know who to ask?
 
kona_kona

kona_kona

Likes Dirt
I move to Canada in May - that's my solution.

I've been in the sport long enough (read: a decade and counting) to realise that SE Qld is going to be forever behind the 8 ball because of a healthy combination of

A) Too many apathetic riders
B) Councils/society with their heads too far up their asses to compromise or even TRY to provide something which has been proven time and time again to be sustainable, safe and of significant interest.

Been there, done that. It's a near fruitless endeavour for a whole shit load of work.

I do wish all the best for the sport in the region but should I even return to Australia, it's not going to be SE Qld.
 
d_j1

d_j1

Likes Dirt
kona_kona said:
I move to Canada in May - that's my solution.

I've been in the sport long enough (read: a decade and counting) to realise that SE Qld is going to be forever behind the 8 ball because of a healthy combination of

A) Too many apathetic riders
B) Councils/society with their heads too far up their asses to compromise or even TRY to provide something which has been proven time and time again to be sustainable, safe and of significant interest.

Been there, done that. It's a near fruitless endeavour for a whole shit load of work.

I do wish all the best for the sport in the region but should I even return to Australia, it's not going to be SE Qld.
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What he said.
 
RYDA

RYDA

Likes Bikes and Dirt
RYDA said:
Yeah, though it hasn't been dozed either. But I'm sure there are more than enough places to build a sweet DH track in the Samford area etc. I'll post their reply when I get it.
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Got a nice generic non informative reply from Moreton Bay Council. Basically it seems theres nothing going on.


Hello Trent,

I have been forwarded your Customer Service Request (1005948) of 11 March 2011. Moreton Bay Regional Council (MBRC) is very aware of the needs of the growing mountain biking community. Over the past 5 years there have been many discussions with Council, both for specific sites and for general requirements and Council is happy to consider formal requests for specific sites to be considered. Among the considerations are the maintenance and management of trails, access to and from the trail and availaibility of suitable land. A copy of the application form is attached.

As MBRC incorporates areas of State Forest and National parks there are already networks of bike trails accessible to the community. Information on trails is included in the 4th edition of Where to mountain bike in South East Queensland. This publication is available through the Gap Creek Trails Alliance who are a good source of information on mountain biking in SEQ. MBRC are also auditing recreation trails and expect to publish trails information on the website late this year. MBRC are also undertaking an Outdoor Recreation Strategy in the next financial year and will be addressing mountain biking needs in the strategy.

I hope this answers your enquiries.

regards
 
Oppy

Oppy

Likes Dirt
Although you may not think so I think it is a positive response, it's certainly not overtly negative which is a great start.

RYDA said:
Got a nice generic non informative reply from Moreton Bay Council. Basically it seems theres nothing going on.


Hello Trent,

I have been forwarded your Customer Service Request (1005948) of 11 March 2011. Moreton Bay Regional Council (MBRC) is very aware of the needs of the growing mountain biking community.
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Great ask what exactly they are doing to cater for downhill.

RYDA said:
Over the past 5 years there have been many discussions with Council, both for specific sites and for general requirements and Council is happy to consider formal requests for specific sites to be considered.
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What was the outcome of the previous investigations into formalising downhill mountain bike riding at Clear Mountain? Why has there not been any progress? Request for the downhill track at Clear Mountain to be formalised.

RYDA said:
Among the considerations are the maintenance and management of trails, access to and from the trail and availaibility of suitable land. A copy of the application form is attached.
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Mountain bike riding has been demonstrated locally as being sustainable, what suitable areas has council identified? If none have been identified why not? What criteria were used to determine appropriate site?


RYDA said:
As MBRC incorporates areas of State Forest and National parks there are already networks of bike trails accessible to the community. Information on trails is included in the 4th edition of Where to mountain bike in South East Queensland. This publication is available through the Gap Creek Trails Alliance who are a good source of information on mountain biking in SEQ.
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All of these locations with the exception of Toowoomba contain no downhill. What is MBRC doing to change this?

RYDA said:
MBRC are also auditing recreation trails and expect to publish trails information on the website late this year.
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Does this include informal trails? If not why not?

RYDA said:
MBRC are also undertaking an Outdoor Recreation Strategy in the next financial year and will be addressing mountain biking needs in the strategy.
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Request to be formally part of the community consultation on this project.

RYDA said:
I hope this answers your enquiries.
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No it doesn't.......

These are just some of the questions I would be sending back to MBRC.
 
wertmewert

wertmewert

Likes Dirt
I would be more then happy to go to a meeting, I am sure a number of downhillers would support Trent at a meeting.
 
Deadman

Deadman

Likes Dirt
Well done RYDA, you have taken a very positive step. I'm sure the council people would be very interested to have dialogue with you and others. Looks like your timing is spot on and you can be part of the process. Be an opportunist!

Good luck with it.
 
nic1894

nic1894

Likes Bikes and Dirt
yeh good work RYDA i think alot of people will be proud of your effort and if you are to busy to meet with them or something i know a few people + myself that would be more than happy to chat i think that if something doesnt change soon downhill will slowly keep on dying....
 
D

Daisy69

Likes Bikes
ride for a cuase

i think ryda is doing a top job, if only brissy council could see what mt buller is doing and becoming, due to hard work and well planned tracks. if something is to happen, maybe we need to follow the same sort of plan as Mr glen Jacobs.
say a track is a meter wide (average) we need to "give back" that land in other ways IE: re plant an shut down of UN used "access tracks, so say on average a dis used road in the bush is 2 meters wide. maybe more maybe less. it goes for 2 km. that equals 4 km of track, obviously that is not the easy part, nor cheap but if mt buller works on that basic concept, and buller would have been harder to swing being national alpine area, and clearly its working, maybe we should be discussing this with our council.
 
normdouglas

normdouglas

Likes Dirt
A very interesting thread. Here in Forrest we have battled for 3 years to allow volunteers to maintain existing Government built trails. This has been a mammoth task, but we are now there. The model we have used is a "repeatable" and "sustainable" one.
NOT one built on a relationship with a particular ranger, but rather working within the confines of legislation and requirements of the department.
This we would hope is the basis for future such relationships.

I don't know much... but what I do know is that we all want sustainable trails... building "illegal" trails is NOT sustainable... period.

Norm Douglas
VIC rep MTBA
 
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