That is so 2015
Your favourite AM frame and why
- Thread starter Lurkin
- Start date
ray2:
mitchy_
Llama calmer
even as a shorter bloke, i'm loving the much steeper STA (~75°) on my new frame.
MARKL
Eats Squid
I read the VPP2 is supposed to pedal better than older setup on the SS1 :noidea: My Sunday climbs better than the SS1 but the stupid seat post angle was a real turnoff for me, reminded me of my old Cube which I found really hard to balance the suspension between seated and standing positions. Having said that I reckon the SS2 in orange is one of the sexiest bikes ever made.
stirk
Burner
So very very true. If only the shed and wallet were big enough!
moorey
call me Mia
Yep. Single pivot is where it's out. After a rocky start to our relationship, the five is fast becoming my weapon of choice. Maybe it's coz I'm old school. Maybe it's because I've been riding oranges since 2002. Maybe it's coz I'm a hack....but I love it more every ride. Bring on the orange/single pivot hate.
spoozbucket
Likes Dirt
Meh, a tiny bit of brake feedback isn't really an issue, it seems that more decent manufacturers are going single pivot and they still get great reviews from magazines.
steve jobs' pancreas
Eats Squid
Perhaps this question should be a new topic but it kinda fits with this.
Can a dropper post be regarded as compensating for a "steep" STA (mine is 74) and to a lesser extent HTA (71) ?
or am I thinking about the benefits of a dropper post all wrong.
Reason I ask is I often wonder if I'd be better off on an AM or Enduro than an XC (superlight).
Maybe this makes no sense at all.
Can a dropper post be regarded as compensating for a "steep" STA (mine is 74) and to a lesser extent HTA (71) ?
or am I thinking about the benefits of a dropper post all wrong.
Reason I ask is I often wonder if I'd be better off on an AM or Enduro than an XC (superlight).
Maybe this makes no sense at all.
ianganderton
Likes Dirt
A dropper post doesn't alter the geometry of the bike it just makes the saddle easy to get out of the way allowing more room to move your body weight. Typically this is backwards on steep descents but it also has advantages in corners
steve jobs' pancreas
Eats Squid
thereby having the effect of a slacker STA ?
russthedog
Likes Bikes and Dirt
no, it doesnt change anything. It just lowers the seat. Thats not relevant to frame geometry at all.
fallingwater
Likes Bikes
Why not the Heckler?
Odd that you bag the Heckler, but the O5 you're riding is pretty much a direct copy, as was the 222 of the original Super8
fallingwater
Likes Bikes
Weight distribution?
But it does alter the centre of gravity (seated) when the bike is angled up or down
spoozbucket
Likes Dirt
I think a dropper is more of a necessity on a bike with a steep seat tube angle as the seat wants to beat the hell out of your gooch when you are standing but bike with a slacker STA the seat moves out of your way a bit more.
I'm pretty fat so I wouldn't really look at anything with less than a 75deg HTA, I think my current frame is 73 and I have to have to run the dropouts at 430mm to keep the front down on climbs, it sucks!
ianganderton
Likes Dirt
Of course a higher or lower seat height does give a different geometry for a bike. A seat that is higher than handle bars for instance feels very different to one that is lower
For a dropper post the saddle height is set in the same way as for a conventional seat post. This doesn't matter if the bike is an xc, Enduro, all mountain or whatever.
On my bikes I have always set my seat height for optimum pedalling efficiency. I have always been able to get off the back, behind my seat when I've needed to
Prior to dropper posts being common some folks might have not set their seat post for optimum pedalling efficiency and instead factored in so room to move about. This would have affected the geometry of the bike set up.
Dropper posts allow optimum pedalling efficiency set up with the ability to quickly change the seat height to any other desired set up and back again at the push of a button
There are weight, cost and complexity trade offs with dropper posts. I'm currently debating mine as I'm rarely using it on the trails I'm finding around Sydney.
Seat height, bar height, stem length etc all affect riding geometry I guess. This is why the simple head tube/ seat tube specs folks are quoting in my opinion over simplify something incredibly complex
For a dropper post the saddle height is set in the same way as for a conventional seat post. This doesn't matter if the bike is an xc, Enduro, all mountain or whatever.
On my bikes I have always set my seat height for optimum pedalling efficiency. I have always been able to get off the back, behind my seat when I've needed to
Prior to dropper posts being common some folks might have not set their seat post for optimum pedalling efficiency and instead factored in so room to move about. This would have affected the geometry of the bike set up.
Dropper posts allow optimum pedalling efficiency set up with the ability to quickly change the seat height to any other desired set up and back again at the push of a button
There are weight, cost and complexity trade offs with dropper posts. I'm currently debating mine as I'm rarely using it on the trails I'm finding around Sydney.
Seat height, bar height, stem length etc all affect riding geometry I guess. This is why the simple head tube/ seat tube specs folks are quoting in my opinion over simplify something incredibly complex
ianganderton
Likes Dirt
It could be argued that a long reach bike benefits from a dropper post a lot as it allows folks to get behind the seat easier.
ianganderton
Likes Dirt
Hmmmmm, musing to myself.......as the trails steepen the seat tube angle becomes pretty much irrelevant because you don't sit on the seat
I guess the relationship between the bottom bracket and the bars is where the room is created
I guess the relationship between the bottom bracket and the bars is where the room is created
bikeyoulongtime
Likes Dirt
Changing the seat height doesn't alter the bike's geometry. It changes the range of movement a rider has, which in turn allows more room to changes the position of the biggest, heaviest part of the bike/rider system relative to the pretty much fixed bike geometry.
Putting your seat down doesn't suddenly turn a steep head angle slack, or a high BB low. You're still not changing bike geometry, or even effective geometry. What you *are* doing is giving yourself room to move - to compensate for some of those things.
In a modern bike (say, 65-66HA, 75STA, longish reach), the bike is designed to handle most things with the rider's weight central. Dropping the seat gives a lot of room to suck up bumps, let the bike come up to you, and move forward or back as required. On a long wheel base bike, this is possible - and a great skill to have in the bag.
Using myself as an example I rarely get off the back of the bike until things get completely crazy steep or I need to lift the front for a flat drop. I'm always aiming for pretty much chin over the steerer and eyes up - a pretty committed stance. The bike handles the rest, and dropping the seat means I can let the bike move, give it the full benefit of the big springs which my legs are, in addition to the 160mm of suspension on tap.
I use my dropper every ride. I used to be a fully hardcore 'must ride everything seat up' person. Now I CBF, and just have fun. Anytime there's a descent, down it goes! Sometimes on techy climb sections, down it goes. Curiously, I'm a lot faster these days...
...I'm also gonna get a dropper for my next gen CX/commuterbeast. Just a wee one, 30mm or so.. with a hacked left hand double tap shifter to drive it.
Back on topic: for the range of bikes discussed here Just Get a Goddamn Dropper Post. Without one, you're pretty much hamstringing the machine.
Putting your seat down doesn't suddenly turn a steep head angle slack, or a high BB low. You're still not changing bike geometry, or even effective geometry. What you *are* doing is giving yourself room to move - to compensate for some of those things.
In a modern bike (say, 65-66HA, 75STA, longish reach), the bike is designed to handle most things with the rider's weight central. Dropping the seat gives a lot of room to suck up bumps, let the bike come up to you, and move forward or back as required. On a long wheel base bike, this is possible - and a great skill to have in the bag.
Using myself as an example I rarely get off the back of the bike until things get completely crazy steep or I need to lift the front for a flat drop. I'm always aiming for pretty much chin over the steerer and eyes up - a pretty committed stance. The bike handles the rest, and dropping the seat means I can let the bike move, give it the full benefit of the big springs which my legs are, in addition to the 160mm of suspension on tap.
I use my dropper every ride. I used to be a fully hardcore 'must ride everything seat up' person. Now I CBF, and just have fun. Anytime there's a descent, down it goes! Sometimes on techy climb sections, down it goes. Curiously, I'm a lot faster these days...
...I'm also gonna get a dropper for my next gen CX/commuterbeast. Just a wee one, 30mm or so.. with a hacked left hand double tap shifter to drive it.
Back on topic: for the range of bikes discussed here Just Get a Goddamn Dropper Post. Without one, you're pretty much hamstringing the machine.