Warburton trail updates

yuley95

Rides a great parmie
Apparently they will be discussing the Warburton trails on ABC Melbourne conversation Hour today (now). Specifically balancing environmental concerns vs tourism. Sounds like it might be stacked in the 'don't let the nasty bike riders in because they will trash the place' side of things.

If you are able, might be worth calling in to talk about how nice we all are
 

Stredda

Runs naked through virgin scrub
There's a few stereotypical perceptions of mountain bikers the can be detrimental to how we are perceived and that probably due to what the MTB media put out there.

Some think of Strava chasing, lycra clad XC warriors and they are often associated to road hogging roadies and seem to attract the same hate.

Then there's the Enduro bros, full face helmets, party shirts, exploding all the berms, ripping the trails to shreds and riding down all the walking trails.

What doesn't seem to get out to the non MTB community is the families with young kids riding together, a few mates heading out for a casual social ride, the ever increasing amount of female riders and the surprising amount of over 50 riders, out enjoying the trails.

The latter is probably what we need to promote more if we are going to get acceptance outside the MTB community.
 

Flow-Rider

Burner
Gee it's a painful listen... Some valid points being made but also alot of misinformation.
Most of it is misinformed rubbish, like usual.
Take for e.g. the accommodation, heaps of motels and B&B's around 9min drive from Warburton, there's already fire roads through the place, so what nobody uses them or walks off the fire road? I cringe when I hear rubbish like that.
 

Ackland

Eats Squid
The presenters don't exactly understand what the development proposes either...
Eg not differentiating between a single continuous 160km trail and a 160km network of trails.

Its the same old story.

Those who oppose these developments are so set in their beliefs that they don't listen to any explanations.
You could draw parallels with antivaxxer, flat earther etc. Doesn't matter how reasonable the answer and how well laid out and justified the rationale is, in their mind, they're right and you're wrong.

I love that the "ecologist walker" completely ignores that for the most part, historical walking trails and routes were never planned, constructed or assessed for environmental impacts and as a consequence, are often very poorly constructed and completely unsustainable from an environmental perspective (not to mention the fact that they were often cleared through pristine areas in the early 1900's).

As @Stredda mentions, there's no shared understanding that the core motivation for all users of natural areas is the same.
 

ForkinGreat

Random Krishna
I had a chat with my brother, who's local, but not a NIMBY as such.
He said he was fine with the proposed trail network, but was concerned that adequate infrastructure be provided, like toilets at trailheads, carparking so MTB bros didn't take all the parking spots on the main drag, and such things. (I didn't take notes, but he had a number of such valid concerns)

Also, he was concerned that all the money would get spent on making the trails, and there would be FA for maintenance, and it would be overstretched Parks Vic staff/rangers tasked with that. He mentioned the aqueduct as an example of that - when there was a storm some time ago, there were many trees down over the trail, and it took a long time to get them cleared with minimal people and resources.

Dont shoot the messenger, it was eye-opening to get his feedback. I kind of expected him to be more pro the development, and I can also understand his concerns.
 

Ackland

Eats Squid
If you dig deeper than page 1, there's provision for trailhead infrastructure, car parking and an ongoing operating model all funded from the existing allocation....

I think that the goal for the project is to be accredited as an IMBA Gold Ride centre (the radio presenter kept using the word gold standard out of context)


Worth noting that IMBA have put a halt on their ride centre and epic accreditation programs pending a review
 

Mattyp

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Yeah I think the fact they are aiming so big with the whole "Its going to be the biggest in Australia, one of few Gold Standards in the world" is probably not doing it any favours... Why so big? why aim so high on a project that has been going for 15 years, just get a couple trails built, and when people realise its not so bad, build a couple more. Bit less of a shock to the system saying "we're building 2x 5km mountain bike tracks" instead of going for 177km.
 

link1896

Is not a gynaecologist but will look at your fork
Yeah I think the fact they are aiming so big with the whole "Its going to be the biggest in Australia, one of few Gold Standards in the world" is probably not doing it any favours... Why so big? why aim so high on a project that has been going for 15 years, just get a couple trails built, and when people realise its not so bad, build a couple more. Bit less of a shock to the system saying "we're building 2x 5km mountain bike tracks" instead of going for 177km.
The environmental effects statement costs are so high it’s probably not viable to start with a small section or two. All or nothing sadly once an EES was mandated
 

Calvin27

Eats Squid
Also, he was concerned that all the money would get spent on making the trails, and there would be FA for maintenance, and it would be overstretched Parks Vic staff/rangers tasked with that.
It's a bit catch 22. If you build it they will come and folks will get engaged and then maintain it. O shaughnessey aqueduct is a terrible example. It doesn't do anything or go anywhere. Good examples are like glengarry which, I 've been told, was 3 blokes building the whole thing. I chuck money in the box everytime I ride, it's the least I can do. Lysty gets crapload of volunteers, as does youies and pretty much every other trail network. Look at Lake mtn, that one is paid for by DELWP and they can make it work with a shuttle. Can you imagine doing a warby epic with a shuttle from the top of donna or ada tree side? Sorry got excited :)
 

ForkinGreat

Random Krishna
It's a bit catch 22. If you build it they will come and folks will get engaged and then maintain it. O shaughnessey aqueduct is a terrible example. It doesn't do anything or go anywhere. Good examples are like glengarry which, I 've been told, was 3 blokes building the whole thing. I chuck money in the box everytime I ride, it's the least I can do. Lysty gets crapload of volunteers, as does youies and pretty much every other trail network. Look at Lake mtn, that one is paid for by DELWP and they can make it work with a shuttle. Can you imagine doing a warby epic with a shuttle from the top of donna or ada tree side? Sorry got excited :)
I'm excited too. I mentioned it because it was AN example of inadequate resources/people to deal with issues like fallen trees blocking tracks after a storm.
The important thing to consider is not your own filters, but those of a local (in this case my brother) and how they view things.

ie difficulty clearing fallen trees in location X probably means difficulty clearing fallen trees in locations Y, Z etc given a known example.

Just because Youies and Lysty have a large volunteer base doesn't automatically mean that will happen at Warburton, but I hope that it does.

Using the "after a storm" theme, was it YRMTB club people or Parks who cleared the fallen trees at silvan?
 
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Stredda

Runs naked through virgin scrub
Out of interest, what is the organisation that is responsible for the trail and infrastructure and construction? Is it a Council, Parks or State Government run and managed project?

With the Wild Mersey trails project that I'm involved with, it's a council initiative and the trails are on various landholders land like Tas Parks, Cement Australia, Sustainable Timbers but the responsibility for maintenance is on the council. They have an annual budget for maintenance but have also just launched a sponsor program with several tiers where businesses and individuals can sponsor the network and this money can go towards maintenance. Derby and St Helens also do the same.
My other hat I put on is with the Cradle Coast MTB Club who manage the Penguin MTB park and Dial Range trails. These trails are on Council and Tas Parks land. The club is responsible for all maintenance here. The council has just recently and for the firs time given us some cash to go towards maintenance and we do get some funds via Trailforks Trail Karma, MTB Direct Dollars for Dirt, and donation QR codes on out signage and trail totems.

I wouldn't like to have Parks responsible for maintenance, as they are renowned for being underfunded and this would just stretch their resources.
 

leitch

Feelin' a bit rrranty
Out of interest, what is the organisation that is responsible for the trail and infrastructure and construction? Is it a Council, Parks or State Government run and managed project?
Project is Yarra Ranges Council, with state gov funding, on a mix of state forest and national park. Not sure about the maintenance plans, I'd assume YRMTB club organising volunteers for working bees, maybe a couple of funded positions within the council for regular maintenance crew.
 
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