The election thread - Two middle-late aged white men trying to be blokey and convincing..., same old shit, FFS.

Who will you vote for?

  • Liberals

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Labor

    Votes: 21 31.8%
  • Nationals

    Votes: 1 1.5%
  • Greens

    Votes: 21 31.8%
  • Independant

    Votes: 15 22.7%
  • The Clive Palmer shit show

    Votes: 4 6.1%
  • Shooters and Fishers Party

    Votes: 1 1.5%
  • One Nation

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Donkey/Invalid vote

    Votes: 3 4.5%

  • Total voters
    66

Plankosaurus

Spongeplank Dalepantski
If only there was a direct quote in the article to settle this.
“The only way you can communicate with the ATO was through fax, and I sent faxes."
in the grand scheme of cherry picked or outright fabricated stuff from the news media, i'd rate this one pretty low down. possibly ABC could have checked with the ATO? but given they're the ones being dragged, i'd hazard a guess they'll be fairly reluctant to help the investigation. Also not entirely far fetched that a certain department requires comms via something other than phone as they might not be manned like their call centres. And again not entirely far fetched that they're still using fax, in fact it sounds alot like the sort of beurocratic runarund a place like the ATO might have as official policy in the hopes a certain percentage of people give up instead of arguing the point.


Devils advocate - Whistleblowing should have consequences if they're found to be fabricated.
Also whistleblowing shouldn't result in any consequences unless the aggrieved party can prove it was fabricated
Slippery slope with tons of grey area for sure, not something i'd want to traverse or make rules for. (Now back to my little hole where i can hold strong opinions on complex issues and not provide even the slightest idea on how it should be excecuted :p )
 

beeb

Dr. Beebenson, PhD HA, ST, Offset (hons)
in the grand scheme of cherry picked or outright fabricated stuff from the news media, i'd rate this one pretty low down. possibly ABC could have checked with the ATO? but given they're the ones being dragged, i'd hazard a guess they'll be fairly reluctant to help the investigation. Also not entirely far fetched that a certain department requires comms via something other than phone as they might not be manned like their call centres. And again not entirely far fetched that they're still using fax, in fact it sounds alot like the sort of beurocratic runarund a place like the ATO might have as official policy in the hopes a certain percentage of people give up instead of arguing the point.


Devils advocate - Whistleblowing should have consequences if they're found to be fabricated.
Also whistleblowing shouldn't result in any consequences unless the aggrieved party can prove it was fabricated
Slippery slope with tons of grey area for sure, not something i'd want to traverse or make rules for. (Now back to my little hole where i can hold strong opinions on complex issues and not provide even the slightest idea on how it should be excecuted :p )
While I agree with pretty much all of your post - I misread "beurocratic runarund" as "bureaucratic roundabout", and that made me chuckle. :)
 

Plankosaurus

Spongeplank Dalepantski
While I agree with pretty much all of your post - I misread "beurocratic runarund" as "bureaucratic roundabout", and that made me chuckle. :)
Same same I guess. I mean does any one actually understand roundabouts?

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ForkinGreat

Knows his Brassica oleracea
in the grand scheme of cherry picked or outright fabricated stuff from the news media, i'd rate this one pretty low down. possibly ABC could have checked with the ATO? but given they're the ones being dragged, i'd hazard a guess they'll be fairly reluctant to help the investigation. Also not entirely far fetched that a certain department requires comms via something other than phone as they might not be manned like their call centres. And again not entirely far fetched that they're still using fax, in fact it sounds alot like the sort of beurocratic runarund a place like the ATO might have as official policy in the hopes a certain percentage of people give up instead of arguing the point.


Devils advocate - Whistleblowing should have consequences if they're found to be fabricated.
Also whistleblowing shouldn't result in any consequences unless the aggrieved party can prove it was fabricated
Slippery slope with tons of grey area for sure, not something i'd want to traverse or make rules for. (Now back to my little hole where i can hold strong opinions on complex issues and not provide even the slightest idea on how it should be excecuted :p )
Australian government entities like Centrelink and the ATO have always made communication difficult for the unfortunate people who have to deal with them, especially when something goes wrong.
My personal opinion is that this is a deliberate policy, in order to demoralize and even break all but the most determined people.
Anyone who ever had to deal with Centrelink would know this all too well. People who genuinely needed help were essentially punished for being poor. For a start, the only way to communicate with centrelink, apart from the (in my experience) shitty MyGov portal, is to ring a telephone number, where you will be put on hold for anything from 30min, to one or more hours, and you might not even get to talk to a person, let alone the person who actually knows how to do their job properly, and is across the area of concern that you are calling about.

Some of the time, you would have to go to a centrelink office, where you may have to wait for a long time before you actually get to deal with an officer. There were a number of times where I would be directed to a phone, in the centrelink office, where you will talk with a centrelink person in another office or call centre, who may or may not know how to help you.
If you need to go to the toilet, that's unfortunate. there won't be one in the centrelink office that you are able to use, not when I had to deal with centrelink circa 2010ish. I had to go to the local public library 15-20min walk away, and use the toilet there.
it would be great if things had changed for the better, but I doubt it.

Then there is evil shit like Robodebt, recently proven to be illegal, and refunds paid out to thousands of people, like myself, who were seen as an easy mark to raise revenue. Not only was the 'onus of proof' reversed that a person had been overpaid, it was well nigh impossible to obtain records of forms submitted and such, because in many cases, those records had been destroyed or deleted.
Pay up or FUCK YOU, WE WILL TAKE YOUR MONEY by garnishing your wages, and/or using debt collectors, was the message received loud and clear.

To date, as far as I am aware, no-one responsible for cooking up robodebt or implementing it has been brought to account, let alone any kind of real justice.
I expect the same lack of justice to happen with regard to the egregious and arrogant behaviour of the ATO, in punishing anyone who calls attention to their highly questionable, if not allegedly illegal conduct.
 

pink poodle

私の性器はピクセル化されています
Centrelink was very difficult to deal with during the first covid lockdown. I had not had anything to do with them since I finished uni (registered, never got paid, deregistered). It was hoop after hoop after hoop, and nobody could tell me all the hoops up front. I'd go into the branch, jump through a hoop, and get told to come back in a few days ready for another hoop. In the end they gave me about $50 a week. Not means tested my arse. I was very frustrated by the whole thing.
 

Plankosaurus

Spongeplank Dalepantski
OMG! this is Brilliant, i see the light now. Let’s get those advisors into the constitution as well and every other group of advisors into the constitution.
I will start making a list.
"if one group gets this, then we open the floodgates for all the other groups"
Or
"Why aren't we proposing this for every minority group and sub minority group, that's not fair to everyone"

They had their country pinched from them. They had official government policy actively working against them in living memory.
They have health and quality of life issues that years of policy makers have failed to rectify.
There is few minority groups in this country that can legitimately claim this treatment from our governments.

They just want to be told they'll be asked to weigh in on any policy that effects them. No power to change anything, just be heard.

Do you really think there's going to be a new referendum for a minority voice every 2 weeks if this gets up? It's a pretty thin argument.

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Oddjob

Merry fucking Xmas to you assholes
"if one group gets this, then we open the floodgates for all the other groups"
Or
"Why aren't we proposing this for every minority group and sub minority group, that's not fair to everyone"

They had their country pinched from them. They had official government policy actively working against them in living memory.
They have health and quality of life issues that years of policy makers have failed to rectify.
There is few minority groups in this country that can legitimately claim this treatment from our governments.

They just want to be told they'll be asked to weigh in on any policy that effects them. No power to change anything, just be heard.

Do you really think there's going to be a new referendum for a minority voice every 2 weeks if this gets up? It's a pretty thin argument.

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Yeah where the fuck is the voice for tall Eurasians!?


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Halo1

Likes Bikes and Dirt
"if one group gets this, then we open the floodgates for all the other groups"
Or
"Why aren't we proposing this for every minority group and sub minority group, that's not fair to everyone"

They had their country pinched from them. They had official government policy actively working against them in living memory.
They have health and quality of life issues that years of policy makers have failed to rectify.
There is few minority groups in this country that can legitimately claim this treatment from our governments.

They just want to be told they'll be asked to weigh in on any policy that effects them. No power to change anything, just be heard.

Do you really think there's going to be a new referendum for a minority voice every 2 weeks if this gets up? It's a pretty thin argument.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk
In the case of the stupid video I think that men can represent women and women can represent men given our current process of elected representatives. It also shows you don’t need advisory bodies in the constitution.

I am pretty woke so believe this even more now that women can have a penis..he he. I have nothing against trans people it is just funny that this video does not consider them.

I also believe that a MP can represent people from all or any cultures.

So I prefer this voice e to not be in the constitution.

Now on the land pinching, why are we stopping at this point? weee there not land conflict before this that we need to address before we get to more recent history?

I would hate for anyone miss giving s through history to not be corrected. also how do we identify those more guilty than others?
 

Jabubu

let you google that for me
In the case of the stupid video I think that men can represent women and women can represent men given our current process of elected representatives. It also shows you don’t need advisory bodies in the constitution.
I'm a pretty concrete thinker and a bit of dumb arse when it comes to nuance but even I could understand her point.
 

Plankosaurus

Spongeplank Dalepantski
In the case of the stupid video I think that men can represent women and women can represent men given our current process of elected representatives. It also shows you don’t need advisory bodies in the constitution.

I am pretty woke so believe this even more now that women can have a penis..he he. I have nothing against trans people it is just funny that this video does not consider them.

I also believe that a MP can represent people from all or any cultures.

So I prefer this voice e to not be in the constitution.

Now on the land pinching, why are we stopping at this point? weee there not land conflict before this that we need to address before we get to more recent history?

I would hate for anyone miss giving s through history to not be corrected. also how do we identify those more guilty than others?
Ahhh yeah, the old "but they must have fought among themselves, so therefore being invaded and pushed off their land and enslaved and near killed off is entirely justified" argument. Works every time



...and on the straw man point - history shows that menfolk have traditionally been exceptional at representing the best interests of the fairer sex, and minority groups in general. Can't see a single reason why someone might mistrust a collective of mostly middle aged conservative white men in the pockets of large corporations

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Halo1

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Ahhh yeah, the old "but they must have fought among themselves, so therefore being invaded and pushed off their land and enslaved and near killed off is entirely justified" argument. Works every time



...and on the straw man point - history shows that menfolk have traditionally been exceptional at representing the best interests of the fairer sex, and minority groups in general. Can't see a single reason why someone might mistrust a collective of mostly middle aged conservative white men in the pockets of large corporations

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I keep getting back to the same point that it is all about the here and now, rather then cherry picking history of what was lost and gained. Both sides are doing this.

If the voice can provide good advice in this area then great. I would get it up and running with existing powers and not take it down the risky path or a referendum.

With the current multicultural mix I don’t see any value in the government doing any more then the national apology.
I think all new initiatives to lift people standard of living and address issues should be based on need and blind to culture back ground biase. The exception to this is where things need to be tailored locally.

I fully support individuals who take it on themselves to give back what they feel they have taken. Once again this works better locally.
All I hear are people saying we should do this as a collective with out defining who is to benefit and who is responsible.
 
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