shitty pikes - are they meant to be like this?

W

wornoutwords

Likes Dirt
hey all
I have a set of 2016 160mm 27.5 rct3 pikes that are simply awful for small bumps etc - this seems to be a fairly common complaint on google although some people have managed to make it better. But this seems really bad.

The only fork i have to compare it to is an old 26er open bath fox. The pikes aren't a little bit worse, they feel closer to a budget coil fork but with the added benefit of diving really badly when turning and braking

I've followed the guides in setting the air pressure, rebound and compression for my weight (~65-70)

I've opened it up to check everything, regrease it etc but it didn't make too much difference

I have taken out the 2 tokens that were in there and that 'seems' like it's made a change when rolling around in the back yard although they're still pretty divey

are there any cheap ways to improve stuff ($40-50)? any more and its probably better for me to flip them and get something else. it has the solo air shaft, is the b1 debonair that much of a difference?
 
Isaakk

Isaakk

Likes Bikes and Dirt
A good start would be a Luftkappe and changing out the bath oil for some Supergliss 100k. Have they been properly serviced (ie more than just dropping lowers, regreasing and replacing the bath oil)? Seals, foam rings, o-rings etc need to be changed over time, if the forks haven't had a proper service for the last 6 years that would go some way to explaining harshness.

You might just be better off getting something newer though.
 
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Jpez

Jpez

Down on the left!
Can’t help with set up but I have the same forks in 150 and they are silky smooth over the small stuff.
 
K

K.C.

Likes Dirt
i went through the whole MBTR thread on this, in order for the lock out or climb mode to work out of the box, the shim stack was super stiff that the fork would likely never seen the high speed compression shim open at all, even for heavy rider. There is a pike service manual that has shim stack arrangements for light compression and light rebound tune, you will loose the climb mode with the light tunes, but you can dial in a lot of low speed compression for support with functional high speed compression.
 
Flow-Rider

Flow-Rider

Burner
Taking the tokens out will make the diving worse, if they're new they'll probably need some time to run-in, depending on what's wrong they might get better. You could try some thinner oil in the damper and re-grease with slicko, they might need the bushes to be re-sized if nothing else is at fault.
 
link1896

link1896

Mr Greenfield
The harshness might not be air spring or damper related but fundamental issues with upper and lowers not telescoping cleanly.

If the bushings aren’t right they can cause bind. The bushings are the plastic glide rings inside the lowers.


Not a five minute task to check but well worth investigating.

Completely strip the fork down. Clean, wash out internals with a solvent. Drop all air spring parts and damper cartridge. Pop out wiper seals too, they get trashed on removal, plan for new ones.


Place uppers into lowers. They should fall under their own weight, or need a LITTLE assistance. They shouldn’t be loose either. Try one leg at a time. Any slop, most evident with one stanchions engaged at a time is also a cause of bind.

How drop uppers and lowers together again with the wheel inserted properly, axle done up. If it now binds and it didn’t before, hub to dropout spacing is wrong and either spreading or pulling in lowers, or stanchions aren’t parallel.

Bushings too tight can be fixed with a tool that gets pushed through then, bushings too loose they can be replaced, hub width can be fixed either way.


If stanchions are messed up, hard to measure, you’ll need an external micrometer to do the stanchions 35mm, and then a larger external mic to do the outside of the stanchion pair. Can be done carefully too with deep reach vernier calipers.
 
Oddjob

Oddjob

Merry fucking Xmas to you assholes
Cheapest option would be stuff the air spring with volume spacers and drop the pressure a bit.

After that the next best option is new air shaft. Then things start to get expensive.

If small bump sensitivity is your top priority, you would be better off chasing a second-hand Marz Z1 coil.

Sent from my M2012K11AG using Tapatalk
 
Mr Crudley

Mr Crudley

Glock in your sock
I really liked my 2013 Pike rct3 with a Luftkappe and Charger 2.0. Small bumps and all. Saying that, I think a strip and cleanup would help.

The solo air has a small dimple on the stanchion used to equalise pressure. If this gets gunked up then this might lead to negative spring harshness over small bumps. Seeing how small this dimple is hints that slippery oil is the thing to use and go sparingly on dimple filling grease.

Is it a Charger 2 or 2.1? The original Charger is rumoured to be harsher in its original tune but has more chance and accessible to be tuned to your liking than the later model Charger.
 
teK--

teK--

Eats Squid
link1896 said:
The harshness might not be air spring or damper related but fundamental issues with upper and lowers not telescoping cleanly.

If the bushings aren’t right they can cause bind. The bushings are the plastic glide rings inside the lowers.


Not a five minute task to check but well worth investigating.

Completely strip the fork down. Clean, wash out internals with a solvent. Drop all air spring parts and damper cartridge. Pop out wiper seals too, they get trashed on removal, plan for new ones.


Place uppers into lowers. They should fall under their own weight, or need a LITTLE assistance. They shouldn’t be loose either. Try one leg at a time. Any slop, most evident with one stanchions engaged at a time is also a cause of bind.

How drop uppers and lowers together again with the wheel inserted properly, axle done up. If it now binds and it didn’t before, hub to dropout spacing is wrong and either spreading or pulling in lowers, or stanchions aren’t parallel.

Bushings too tight can be fixed with a tool that gets pushed through then, bushings too loose they can be replaced, hub width can be fixed either way.


If stanchions are messed up, hard to measure, you’ll need an external micrometer to do the stanchions 35mm, and then a larger external mic to do the outside of the stanchion pair. Can be done carefully too with deep reach vernier calipers.
Click to expand...
This.
 
C

creaky

XMAS Plumper
Since @moorey isn't around …

Pikes form that period had terrible small bump in my experience. Never owned a set but rode numerous bikes with them (mates and hire bikes) and they all seemed to be harsh off the top or just dive through travel if you drop pressure.
 
W

wornoutwords

Likes Dirt
thanks for the tips, i have stripped it and reoiled everything - checked the dimple, it was all clean, no visible damage

I did struggle getting the lowers back on so it might be a bushing thing. they're definitely not loose. I'll pull them again and do those tests!

I'm not sure which charger damper it has, whatever it originally came with? the dial is blue and just says charger & has the 3 settings + the inner compression dial
 
S

SummitFever

Eats Squid
wornoutwords said:
...I did struggle getting the lowers back on...
Click to expand...
Might also be worth checking that lowers are not twisted. A visual inspection with the wheel in should give you a good idea if things are still square.

Also check your hub axle caps are 100mm apart. If they are not exactly 100mm spaced this can give you binding as well.
 
W

wornoutwords

Likes Dirt
link1896 said:
Your original post lists it as a RTC3 which is the better damper.

Tell us more about challenges getting the lowers back on
Click to expand...
nothing too bad, it just took me 3-4 tries to get both legs in at the same time.. although once they were in about 2-3 cm they seemed to slide in ok
 
W

wornoutwords

Likes Dirt
The rings looked fine when I took the lowers off and the air spring out, and the forks feel a bit better now than before I took it apart, so I think the foam rings are fine

I’m planning on a longer ride tomorrow for a better test
K.C. said:
i went through the whole MBTR thread on this, in order for the lock out or climb mode to work out of the box, the shim stack was super stiff that the fork would likely never seen the high speed compression shim open at all, even for heavy rider. There is a pike service manual that has shim stack arrangements for light compression and light rebound tune, you will loose the climb mode with the light tunes, but you can dial in a lot of low speed compression for support with functional high speed compression.
Click to expand...
do you have a link? The one pdf I’ve seen only has the rebound shim stack light tune
 
K

K.C.

Likes Dirt
2015-2018 boxxer manual probably has the compression example, it not the same but quite similar to the pike, you can see how they arrange the stack from soft, standard and firm and work out which one you need to move to the top of the stack on the pike to get the soft tune
 
thepotatokid

thepotatokid

Likes Dirt
I’d try changing the air spring to Debonair B1 or C1. I had a similar issue with the original Pike air spring and the newer Debonair springs are a shed load better!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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