Rotorburn equivalent for utes? - Haakon vs The World

nathanm

Eats Squid
Given the love for Hambo's Great Wall of China I wonder what everyone thinks of the LDV? Very popular here in Tassie. Price of a 6 year old Triton. I'm put off by the NA engine, but has a hell of a spec list and safety rating. May be an excellent shuttle rig?
 

fatboyonabike

Captain oblivious
why are we comparing shitty Italian passenger cars to work utes?....Nobody Cares Haakon!
Good job on the purchase of your new set of wheels @HamboCairns , the only way cars and markets improve is for people like you to dip the toe and have a leap of faith and stand by their decision!
I purchased a Foton Tunland a few years back, never really had major issues with it and only really got rid of it because my boss told me to use the work car more, no sense in having 2 utes parked in the driveway ;)
 

Haakon

has an accommodating arse
why are we comparing shitty Italian passenger cars to work utes?....Nobody Cares Haakon!
I was waiting for someone to miss that point... Perhaps someone who was paying attention can explain it to fatty?

(calls an Alfa shitty and then admits to buying a futon 4wd. lolz)
 

HamboCairns

Thanks for all the bananas
Given the love for Hambo's Great Wall of China I wonder what everyone thinks of the LDV? Very popular here in Tassie. Price of a 6 year old Triton. I'm put off by the NA engine, but has a hell of a spec list and safety rating. May be an excellent shuttle rig?
They're decent enough, less power and torque than a Cannon but I've seen plenty of them around doing towing, tradie duties and the like.

It has the added bonus of an extended tray too!

Wait until you this one gets here!

 

frenchman

Eats cheese. Sells crack.
Given the love for Hambo's Great Wall of China I wonder what everyone thinks of the LDV? Very popular here in Tassie. Price of a 6 year old Triton. I'm put off by the NA engine, but has a hell of a spec list and safety rating. May be an excellent shuttle rig?
Get outta here with your brand new cars for shuttling.
The best shuttle rig is a 20-30 year old 2wd petrol dual cab beater.
 

Haakon

has an accommodating arse
They're decent enough, less power and torque than a Cannon but I've seen plenty of them around doing towing, tradie duties and the like.

It has the added bonus of an extended tray too!

Wait until you this one gets here!

lol. that name just made me think of this

 

fatboyonabike

Captain oblivious
I was waiting for someone to miss that point... Perhaps someone who was paying attention can explain it to fatty?

(calls an Alfa shitty and then admits to buying a futon 4wd. lolz)
But I chose to purchase a lesser known car, and the price reflected that.....An Alfalfa on the other hand!
 

ozzybmx

taking a shit with my boobs out
The Ranger Raptors are actually very good off-road with their $10k of Fox shocks, the towing capacity and carrying capacity is shit though.
 

stirk

Burner
Hi Minlak, I put these questions out there to be answered and one person did a bloody thorough job. I focused on the questions I couldn't answer -

They say rated to 3,000kg towing but only has 400nm of torque?

Answer

Ok so tow rating has many factors here.

Transmission, Drive line, Diffs, brakes, chassis and axle loading etc power not really a thing here as you can make a 100nm pull more than 3T using gearing. Gearing is critical to any movement and the physics involved here is too hard to explain.

But to put it simply the Cannon can tow and tows. Better than my old D-Max and it’s all to do with the 8 Speed auto making sure peak torque is always found in the majority of speed and rev range. My old D-Max had more torque but struggled as it only had 5 speeds and it was a 450nm vehicle. My 2.8T van towed excellent.

Adaptive 4wd (that I can't confirm can be turned off)

Answer

Okay do 3 drive modes are available for on road eco, normal and sports.

Eco is 4x2 with shorter shifts between gears in an attempt to keep the revs down quickly to maximise fuel use and a little more throttle sensitivity is lost in the pedal.

Sports mode is the exact opposite. 2x4 and sharper throttle and will hold the gears longer (this is what i use for towing as it gets maximum torque momentum by holding the gears longer and stops “hunting”.

Okay so now for Normal this is the factory drive mode set every time you jump in and start the vehicle. Now this is 4x4 but the drive shafts are not locked as in Centre Diff is not locked. This allows the front drive shaft and the rear drive shaft to have slip and not bind up. The torque on demand transfer case will sense load and send drive to front and rear drive shafts depending on traction. Now for all of you out there this is not the Factory Rear Diff lock. The factory rear diff lock is a seperate button.

Now there is a hidden drive mode called 4H Expert Mode. Achieving this mode will have you hold down the traction control switch for 5 seconds. This engages the Centre Diff Lock in the transmission forcing both drive shafts to turn equally at the same speed regardless. This os used for off-road only such as flat to mild dune beach driving were low gearing is not needed but you want to achieve higher speeds say cruising down the beach front at 80kph or if your on a slippery wet road you are travelling etc.

Now lastly 4L which is the same as expert mode however you are using a different set of cogs in the transfer case giving you a lower ratio to be able to crawl much steeper terrain.

Now on top of all of this you have the Factory rear electro magnetic diff lock.

This is the magic part of the Cannon that no other dual cab can do and that is you can engage the rear locker in all of these modes unlike other big brands only allowing you to engage when in Low Range… not the Rear Diff lock forces both rear axles to spin equally at the same speed.

So when you have an unlocked diff the wheel with the least amount of traction will spin leaving the tyre with the most traction stationary. This is to slow wheel speeds to be indifferent when cornering however it’s detrimental off road as the tyre that needs to turn won’t however the Rear diff lock will force both tyres to turn and this generally gets you out of most off road scenarios.
A lot of people confuse a centre diff lock and a rear diff lock and assume it’s the same thing or just simply have no clue.

Most complaints of the vehicle revolve around electrical issues - Has a lot of new sensors etc.

Answer

No electrical issues with my Cannon. Now every vehicle on earth in the modern world has electrical connections and radars sensors you name it but you need to understand that the modern day car is far more reliable than an older car running 12V electrics… electronics in cars are very reliable and in some cases better than mechanical components such as Electric assisted steering is far more reliable and stronger than a hydraulic steering system. That’s why they use electric steer now in newer cars.

Don’t sweat the electrons man. Every electrical novice will always blame electricals as a negative because people fear electrics because they do not understand it so they just go with and say that it’s full of electrical issues…. As for me no issues or haven’t heard of any GWM Cannon electrical issues.

I plan on lifting it but without new testing I don't even know if it is stable at stock height.

Answer

It’s stable lol. But I’m saying that an unstable vehicle from factory is sorted out with aftermarket suspension to improve stability so again this kind of cancels itself out as a question. This vehicle rides and handles well unloaded, loaded and also towing. Take a deep breath I know the Chinese are doing good let it go… just let it gooo lol.

Long term owners have been seeing failures with in 25,000 km of things like turbos and intercooler hoses (not a major deal breaker as many "Mainstream" brands have pipe issues as well.

Answer

I can tell you first hand that plenty of issues come about with the main stream. I’ve been in the off-road industry long enough to know.

8 speed gear box to meet emission and economy goals but renowned for "hunting" gears and constantly changing.

Answer

Okay so this is one of ZF most advanced and newest 8 Speed Autos and its build under license in GWMs new state of the art manufacturing plant in Beijing China. Now let's understand something here. Why would the Germans allow the Chinese to build these in house under license using ZF parts if they thought China would do a shit job. They would wouldn’t allow a low quality build as it would only damage ZF's reputation globally as one of the best transmission manufactures. They will be build to spec and done in China to save costs to make the Ute more affordable to us lucky users.

Now back to the box… it’s f@&king great. Let the thing hunt and don’t worry too much lol it’s just doing it’s job maximising peak torque and momentum to look after your wallet at the fuel bowser anyways… but beyond this I don’t find mind to hunt for gears. I found a lot of people who have no idea seem to think it’s cool to say it hunts all the time because it makes them feel like they know a thing or two about cars but they simply just don’t understand it… as for strength of this box I should mention it’s used in the Aston Martin Vanquish which is a serious high performance vehicle built to be abused and more abused than us 4WDrivers would towing… it’s rated for 750nm of torque so it’s adequate and a half. Somebody get this thing a bow and arrow it’s bloody huntinggggg…

Does not appear to have a transmission cooler in the event I actually want to tow the 3000kg they say it can.

Answer

Ok so the aftermarket transmission cooler gets great sales putting fear into people towing saying they will cook the auto if they don’t etc etc. The vehicle will bring up a transmission over temp light if there ever is an over heating issue and before this happens you will shit yourself and go to the dealer freaking out.

But in all honesty the automatic fluids and the cooling engineering design of the autos allow for massive heat as its the hardest working part of the driveline. The manufacturers would built them in if they thought it was an issue and would warrant the vehicle for 7yrs Unlimited kms but sure add an aftermarket cooler and increase the amount of risk in damaging trans cooler and trans cooler lines going in and out of the box. Not to mention more leak points for things to fail etc…. Stop touching it.

Reviews have the front end steering feeling light and not confident especially when loaded or towing.

Answer

Front end will be light if you are loaded up towing with a decent ball weight and you have no air bags or suspension to take the weight accordingly as the nose will be up causing a lighter front axle weight.. it’s totally normal. Correct suspension will help this massively….
Unloaded or normal circumstance keep in mind the steering is progressive in feel depending on speed as the car increases or decreases firmness on the fly. But like anything once you drive it for a week you adapt and don’t even think about it because you were just adapted to a previous car…

Questions over the actual strength of ball joints - axles - diffs - are they considered warranty or abuse if they fail?

Answer

Eaton Diffs and drive components = some of the toughest in the industry.

Axles have to be tough if they are offering a factory rear diff lock and 7yrs u limited km warranty this goes for it’s ball joints too..

Conclusion

Just bloody buy one already… no one hesitates to order some fried rice from the local Chinese shop on a Friday night lol.

It’s good shit….
Jebus!

I'm so fucking happy I own a 35 year old Japanese manual 5 speed 4wd.

My electrical issues is me zapping myself if I arc the battery terminals by mistake and gearbox hunting is me not changing gears when they need to be changed.
 

Asininedrivel

caviar connoisseur
The Ranger Raptors are actually very good off-road with their $10k of Fox shocks, the towing capacity and carrying capacity is shit though.
There's some quite amusing videos on YouTube of car journalists being given the keys to those and then driving them off cliffs and not dying. Looked fun.

Guilty attraction kinda fun actually.
 
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