Rock Climbing
- Thread starter wesdadude
- Start date
silentbutdeadly
has some good things to say
I recall many a time lying flat on my back under one of those...fingers aching and winded.
ajay
^Once punched Jeff Kennett. Don't pick an e-fight
For top roping in a gym, bina through the main loop, and rope through loop at the legs, then through the main loop and tie off.
If you're leading, tie your bowline (or fig 8) through both loops.
What are you using two biners for?
wesdadude
ウェスド アドゥーデ
That's how it's set up in the gyms. One on figure of 8 at the bottom and one maybe 20cm higher up the rope. No need at all to do any sort of tying off. For the hire harnesses I clipped them both through the belay loop going the opposite ways. Belaying is just one attached to a grigri so I've got that sorted.
silentbutdeadly
has some good things to say
True - if one is leading in a gym (or anywhere else for that matter). But I suspect that Wesdadude is describing the set-up the gym uses for top roping...which is more than OK.
MARKL
Eats Squid
He has just bought shoes and a harness so I think it is fair to say he isn't leading anything at the moment - and every gym I have climbed at requires you to bring your own lead rope and tie in.
For top roping most gyms have 2 carrabiner clip in these days which is simply to double the chances of somebody clipping in properly. Put the first carrabiner through the tie in loops on the waist and legs, with the second carrabiner ideally you do the same thing or put it through the belay loop if you run out of room.
For top roping most gyms have 2 carrabiner clip in these days which is simply to double the chances of somebody clipping in properly. Put the first carrabiner through the tie in loops on the waist and legs, with the second carrabiner ideally you do the same thing or put it through the belay loop if you run out of room.
ajay
^Once punched Jeff Kennett. Don't pick an e-fight
Yeah hence the stopper. Fig8s are great, in that they're a simple and bomb proof knot, but trying to get them undone after a whipper is a balls ache. (Most gyms won't let you use a bowling anyway :/)
And yep, top roping I always clip in with a Bina and tie through both loops. I'm weary of gyms that use gri-gris too.
wesdadude
ウェスド アドゥーデ
Yeah, I'm only top roping. Two biners and a gri-gri is how all the gyms I've been to are set up. I'd much rather tubular but they cater to the general public too.
What grade would you recommend to be comfortable at before I look into lead climbing?
Why the tie in loops? I've read that you're limiting the effective strength of the biner by cross loading it and that they were designed for 1 point of contact (not counting the rope) rather than two.
What grade would you recommend to be comfortable at before I look into lead climbing?
Last edited:
ajay
^Once punched Jeff Kennett. Don't pick an e-fight
Youre not loading both simultaneously. Its basically 2 points of safety, if the fig8 fails, the biner will catch you.
As for leading, I think you'd want to be comfortable on most 17s. Thats pretty much where you need start relying more on good technique, rather than strength. Lead climbing will make you acutely aware of where your body needs to be as you need get yourself into solid positions to make clips.
As for leading, I think you'd want to be comfortable on most 17s. Thats pretty much where you need start relying more on good technique, rather than strength. Lead climbing will make you acutely aware of where your body needs to be as you need get yourself into solid positions to make clips.
MARKL
Eats Squid
Tie in loops? Good habbits more than anything else, the belay loop is strong enough.
Leading and top roping are so different it's not just the grade, as Ajay said you would want to be climbing 17 as a minimum; in addition I would say you want to be climbing it comfortably. Having the technique to stop and make the clip, being able to make the judgement on what you can and can't do. If you are going to start leading my advice is:
1 - make sure you do it with people that are experienced at leading;
2 - I haven't seen you climb or belay but most people in climbing gyms can't belay for shit, belaying on biners is totally different to slow-go-s or what ever device the gym uses to make belaying easier - be prepared to improve your belaying - if you are using tubes or sherrifs you will need to lock down properly, you will need to communicate with the climber and understand when they need slack or for you to take up quickly - you will need to belay not just drag a rope through gri-gri.
3 - practice making the clip and understand how clipping in works or doesn't work - including risk of uncliping. Read this as a starting point http://www.petzl.com/en/Sport/Positioning-the-quickdraw-and-clipping-the-rope?ActivityName=Rock-climbing&l=US#.VjcHR_krKUk
4 - practice stopping and making the clip whilst top roping so you can get a feel for how long you will need to hold on for and how you can make it easier
5 - be prepared to drop a few grades from what you are used to
Miguel75
Likes Dirt
I reckon Gri-gri's are fine; they're no more nor less dangerous than your standard ATC, provided you learn how to use them correctly and understand their limitations. I prefer a gri-gri for aid climbing and TR though usually use an ATC for lead. As far as when to get into leading that'll depend on a few things; most important is a solid climbing partner who can show you the ropes? One way to get your mind around the leading process is to "lead" while on top rope. If you have a party of three, one of you can "lead", one can "lead belay" and the other one is actually belaying you on TR. You're not actually leading because you're still on TR belay though as a leader you get a feel for clipping while your "lead belayer" gets the hang of paying out slack, watching for you to clip and taking up slack in a dynamic way. I personally reckon the best skills to focus on learning is lead belaying and communicating with your partner
, as their life is in your hands. Belaying is more than just holding the rope as you're constantly watching your leader, encouraging them through the crux, suggesting they get gear in, warning them if the rope goes behind their leg/behind a flake/in a crack and giving them a soft catch should they fall... It takes time and lots of practice.
As someone previously said, choose your partner wisely. They'll have your life in their hands.
EDIT. MarkL has shared an awesome resource; the Petzl website. If you can, try to get hold of a hard copy of their yearly catalogue as it's filled with cool gear and awesome tech tips. I'd look long and hard at point #3 in that link; back clipping is bad juju. Learn what a back clip looks like and always communicate with your leader if you think they may have back clipped. I watched a dude take a very disheartening ground fall at Werribee due to back clipping the first bolt on Redex. No bueno at all.
Last edited:
MARKL
Eats Squid
I probably should have addressed this in more detail, there are a couple of things at play here.
1 - you are on top rope so the loads are very small compared to a lead climbing situation where, in theory you could have a fall factor of up to 2. Top rope fall factors are generally less than 0.1, unless the belayer is really bad, so even allowing for stretched out hard as wire static gym ropes the loads are small.
2 - again you are on top rope so the direction of fall compared to protection is very predictable (pro is above your head - you are heading to the pro) so the loading is fairly predictable and if you are clipping in correctly the load should be on the long axis of the biner.
I also recommend you get a Petzl brochure if you don't have one (admittedly it is years since I looked at one) or trawl their web site they have lots of good info which is more reliable than randoms like me on the intenet
nakedape
Likes Dirt
You do not learn to climb on the internet - This is rule 1 of learning to climb.
Rule 2 - if you wear a go pro you will fall & hurt yourself whilst screaming like a sissy.
wesdadude
ウェスド アドゥーデ
I was up for an indication of when to start thinking about leading. I'm not consistently up 17s yet so I'll leave it for a bit more and reassess some time next year.
My belay style is quite similar to this although my free hand ends up on top in 3 and I release and regrab with the brake rather that slide in 4. I originally learnt on tubular so was lucky not to be poorly instructed.