Pre workout, hydration, post ride nutrition

[Flow-Rider]

Anyone else tried glutamine post rides ? I take it with protein powder and it seems to help my legs recover quicker. I only notice it to work when I take it consecutively for over two weeks.

 

[Ghostee]

So can we group order some Jack3d?

i tried Jack3d once, active ingredient is now banned. After 20 minutes couldn't feel my skin. https://www.tga.gov.au/behind-news/tga-decision-ban-dmaa

Scivation Extend is my favourite suppliment now, and Ghostee is spot on, diet and sleep are the biggest performance boosters.

dozer, I'll pm you, keen to try your new powder.

Banned for a good reason too... Problem with most of the pre workouts, in particular, is that the synthetic caffeine compounds they are creating in their magical labs do not have long term studies done on them to know how fucked up we will be in the years to come, its quite scary actually.
Even with working in a supp store, the main supp I use is a BCAA complex. The odd pre workout here and there when I have early training on, or new products that I need to be able to tell customers how they taste/make you feel but other than that, I eat my gainz.

Oh and beta alanine as I mentioned earlier...

 

[link1896]

Anyone else tried glutamine post rides ? I take it with protein powder and it seems to help my legs recover quicker. I only notice it to work when I take it consecutively for over two weeks.

I was on it as an aid for recovery from celiacs disease damage. Found it addictive and struggled with dosage.

 

[Ghostee]

Anyone else tried glutamine post rides ? I take it with protein powder and it seems to help my legs recover quicker. I only notice it to work when I take it consecutively for over two weeks.

Glutamine can certainly be another amino acid that is beneficial, again though, only if diet is somewhat lacking or recovery is lacking, which in turn is linked back to an inadequate diet.
I find glutamine most beneficial when I start to feel sick as it has immune boosting properties, like really load up on it; 40-50g a day, served in 5-10g doses.

 

[Flow-Rider]

Glutamine can certainly be another amino acid that is beneficial, again though, only if diet is somewhat lacking or recovery is lacking, which in turn is linked back to an inadequate diet.
I find glutamine most beneficial when I start to feel sick as it has immune boosting properties, like really load up on it; 40-50g a day, served in 5-10g doses.

Yep, the viruses seem to last shorter durations while I take it. I haven't noticed any side affects yet, not that I take it all the time, only when I have a heap of hard rides grouped together.

I was on it as an aid for recovery from celiacs disease damage. Found it addictive and struggled with dosage.

It certainly tastes awful mixed in plain water.

 

[Ghostee]

It certainly tastes awful mixed in plain water.

The hardcore kids just chuck a spoonful in their mouth then wash it down.
Unfortunately, ALL unflavoured amino acids taste rubbish.

 

[driftking]

Is this some kind of weird advertorial? read the link, has testimonials, no science, rough few weeks at work, freely admit to being grumpy.

Only two things are proven to work, caffeine and glucose supplementation, creatine for more anaerobic pursuits, everything else is a hoax, pre and post workout is a hoax. If it is performance orientated and differs from the AIS guidelines is placebo.



Struggling to make sense of this?

The crash or hitting the wall will occur to everyone whether supplementation occurs or not. usually takes close to two hours, depending on intensity of effort, has nothing to do with nitric oxide, but glycogen depletion.

Nitro oxide, occurs during exercise to dilate vessels to the working muscles, taking a supplement that increases nitric oxide, will increase systemic blood flow, reducing blood flow to the working muscles, a terrible thing for aerobic activity.

I thought nitric oxide was good, I heard lots of riders down beetroot due to this effect....but I have never seen it. Got a study for nitric oxide and aerobic activity?

Curious, I did Pm you about this subject awhile ago but didn't hear back. In my research I did find the following.

I cannot make a conclusive statement on these as i am not qualified so don't take anything I say as fact, although the studies might be worth a look to make your own conclusions.

Creatine may increase the mRNA of protein synthesis and therefore decreasing protein degradation which may actually offer endurance athletes a muscle protection effect during events.
https://lirias.kuleuven.be/handle/123456789/279694


Further more creatine may reduce the oxidation of leucine
Effects of acute creatine monohydrate supplementation on leucine kinetics and mixed-muscle protein synthesis

One study looked at the benefits of increasing leucine supplements and its role in muclse protien sythesis with good results.
Leucine-enriched essential amino acid supplem... [Am J Clin Nutr. 2011] - PubMed - NCBI

So by preventing the oxidization of leucine we may actually improve protein synthesis and reduce fatigue and improve recovery?

Some suggest creatine may also improve glycogen storage in the muscle which inevitably will be beneficial for endurance athletes, however endurance athletes generally load before hand so I'd need to see a study on carb loading with and without creatine to see if the effect is still a larger muscle glycogen level.
Creatine supplementation increases glycogen ... [Clin Sci (Lond). 2004] - PubMed - NCBI

A small study also showed that creatine may potentially reduce glycogen and protein degradation
Contribution of creatine to protein homeostasis i... [Eur J Nutr. 2014] - PubMed - NCBI

So while I am unsure if creatine will improve performance times as it increases water weight and may decrease performance times. It may improve the recovery process afterwards by preventing muscle breakdown and by extending the period of time the body remains in an anabolic state before reaching a catabolic state.

It seems to me that creatine may be used in muscle preservation and recovery mostly for endurance athletes? But I really have no idea, given I did not have access to all the studies in full its a low bow to draw and pure speculation, but I would like to have some insight from those members who are actually qualified on the topic.

MWI, Phama and those other members who can jump in on the studies?

 

[Minlak]

hehe, that is often true, although I have heard stories of AFP and customs taking an interest in this. Depending on the quantity of the order.

I pay by PayPal and lose something out of every second order to the customs people. I never get a letter about it (guy at work bought butterfly knife got it seized and got a letter informing of his option to appeal) though it just doesn't show up and it's not the whole order that's missing just parts of it. I just do a claim back on PayPal.
White lightening is practically speed ..... Mmmmm white lightening

 

[Mywifesirrational]

I thought nitric oxide was good, I heard lots of riders down beetroot due to this effect....but I have never seen it. Got a study for nitric oxide and aerobic activity?

Curious, I did Pm you about this subject awhile ago but didn't hear back. In my research I did find the following.

I cannot make a conclusive statement on these as i am not qualified so don't take anything I say as fact, although the studies might be worth a look to make your own conclusions.

Creatine may increase the mRNA of protein synthesis and therefore decreasing protein degradation which may actually offer endurance athletes a muscle protection effect during events.
https://lirias.kuleuven.be/handle/123456789/279694


Further more creatine may reduce the oxidation of leucine
Effects of acute creatine monohydrate supplementation on leucine kinetics and mixed-muscle protein synthesis

One study looked at the benefits of increasing leucine supplements and its role in muclse protien sythesis with good results.
Leucine-enriched essential amino acid supplem... [Am J Clin Nutr. 2011] - PubMed - NCBI

So by preventing the oxidization of leucine we may actually improve protein synthesis and reduce fatigue and improve recovery?

Some suggest creatine may also improve glycogen storage in the muscle which inevitably will be beneficial for endurance athletes, however endurance athletes generally load before hand so I'd need to see a study on carb loading with and without creatine to see if the effect is still a larger muscle glycogen level.
Creatine supplementation increases glycogen ... [Clin Sci (Lond). 2004] - PubMed - NCBI

A small study also showed that creatine may potentially reduce glycogen and protein degradation
Contribution of creatine to protein homeostasis i... [Eur J Nutr. 2014] - PubMed - NCBI

So while I am unsure if creatine will improve performance times as it increases water weight and may decrease performance times. It may improve the recovery process afterwards by preventing muscle breakdown and by extending the period of time the body remains in an anabolic state before reaching a catabolic state.

It seems to me that creatine may be used in muscle preservation and recovery mostly for endurance athletes? But I really have no idea, given I did not have access to all the studies in full its a low bow to draw and pure speculation, but I would like to have some insight from those members who are actually qualified on the topic.

MWI, Phama and those other members who can jump in on the studies?

Just leaving work, had a quick look at one studies, so I'll be brief:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23392621

The findings suggest that creatine supplementation tended to decrease muscle glycogen and protein degradation, especially after endurance exercise.

This is what an author writes when they really wanted a result, but statistically the result wasn't there.

conclusion from the retrieved paper is

In terms of metabolism, creatine supplementation possessed the advantages of decreasing muscle glycogen and protein degradation, especially after endurance exercise, although it might not benefit the endurance performance.

I'll have a look at some others tomorrow.

Supplements are a waste of money, with the exception of a few I have mentioned. Never believe a sales man or company that makes the product, they are biased believe it or not.

Caffeine, hydration, creatine, glucose supplementation during endurance events and protein work. Pre, post and everything else is just a marketing wank. We have this conversation on here every 6 months, have a decent meal within a few hours post ride and your good, if its a long ride have a bottle of gatorade every 30-40 minutes as per the most excellent and science based AIS guidelines. There is a shitload of placebo effect in this topic.

If you think I am full of shit, oh well, I'll get over that. I don't sell a product, I have no vested interest in this topic or how you waste your money. Sign up for studies on this if you want to make a difference, research depts are always looking for participants, particularly well trained peeps to improve knowledge, that can benefit you.

 

[driftking]

Just leaving work, had a quick look at one studies, so I'll be brief:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23392621

The findings suggest that creatine supplementation tended to decrease muscle glycogen and protein degradation, especially after endurance exercise.

This is what an author writes when they really wanted a result, but statistically the result wasn't there.

conclusion from the retrieved paper is

In terms of metabolism, creatine supplementation possessed the advantages of decreasing muscle glycogen and protein degradation, especially after endurance exercise, although it might not benefit the endurance performance.

I'll have a look at some others tomorrow.

Supplements are a waste of money, with the exception of a few I have mentioned. Never believe a sales man or company that makes the product, they are biased believe it or not.

Caffeine, hydration, creatine, glucose supplementation during endurance events and protein work. Pre, post and everything else is just a marketing wank. We have this conversation on here every 6 months, have a decent meal within a few hours post ride and your good, if its a long ride have a bottle of gatorade every 30-40 minutes as per the most excellent and science based AIS guidelines. There is a shitload of placebo effect in this topic.

If you think I am full of shit, oh well, I'll get over that. I don't sell a product, I have no vested interest in this topic or how you waste your money. Sign up for studies on this if you want to make a difference, research depts are always looking for participants, particularly well trained peeps to improve knowledge, that can benefit you.

Cheers, be waiting a reply when you get some more time.

I'm with you on the supplements and the excessive marketing. I enjoy reading your reply's.

If I do ever want to venture into a particular supplement myself, I check the studies, dosing and results and find out if its actually of a real benefit. I find the best way is to find the studies, check the ingredients on the back avoid all the marketing.

Supplements need more regulation for sure, especially given they can be dangerous, more so when you take them blind because some bloke told you it helps.
Everyone should speak to their doctor before taking anything new as to make sure it is safe for them to do so.

 

[slippy]

Water, milk, coffee, bananas, figs, almonds, green smoothies taken in regular moderate quantities on a background of a balanced diet. A few gels/sports drinks while riding long distance is about as close to supplementation as I've ever noticed make any significant difference.
Search for the video of what "The Checkout" found out about the TGA. Opens your eyes.

 

[Dozer]

Water, milk, coffee, bananas, figs, almonds, green smoothies taken in regular moderate quantities on a background of a balanced diet. A few gels/sports drinks while riding long distance is about as close to supplementation as I've ever noticed make any significant difference.
Search for the video of what "The Checkout" found out about the TGA. Opens your eyes.

I watched a few videos on that page and tried as hard as I could to be neutral after seeing the ABC logo at the top of the page. End result? I'm not neutral anymore, that is fucking garbage.

 

[slippy]

The ABC or the TGA? You would have a point both ways.