Pointless new standards - name and shame the "innovators".

John U

John U

MTB Precision
I am a firm believer that, within reason, any problem can be solved with existing standards using innovation and good engineering. There are exceptions but the rest is marketing bullshit. I do believe that changes in wheel size has been a consistent giver/performance gain in the new standards field.

I'll start if off with the 15mm axle. It's been done to death but I'm not convinced. If it was worth doing it could've been done with existing 20mm axle standard. If people need a new axle standard so they can differentiate between types of bikes they should give up mountain biking and stick to golf. Thanks Fox and Shimano, as they say in the classics, 'Ordinary people, the lot of you's'.

Backing it up with the tapered steerer. If it was required the the existing standard of straight 1.5 could have been used. I'm not sure who was responsible for this clusterfuck. Please fill the gap if you know. The same goes for you as goes for Fox and Shimano in the preceding comment.

I believe there's some discussion on rear axle standards. I'm still rockin' 135 mm out the back so have now issues here, but if you do, go to town, let it out, and let them know we will be slightly averse to swallowing new standards forced upon us.
 
moorey

moorey

call me Mia
I'm with you on head tubes. Make every frame 1.5 headtube and get around the moronic standards, and run any fork.
I have zero issues running 1 1/8 straight steerer on most of my bikes, btw. Can't pick any difference in the tapered I've run.
 
pharmaboy

pharmaboy

Eats Squid
Yes 15mm no advantage over 20

Tapered versus straight - pleeeeease!

Pressfit v BSA, sort of
BSA v Italian. - just fuck off ITaly - putting a sticker on a colnago doesn't make it Italian ( nuff said)

142 without a wider hub - what a waste

FUCKING HEADSETS!!!!!!! How many does there need to be?

SRAM GPX v bb30 - for a start why does GPX differ from shimano unless you re explicitly trying to be arse, second, why do GPS cranks undo from the left and bb30 from drive side ? This is proof positive that you are a company full of fuckwits before you even bought avid brakes

203mm rotor v 200mm - cunts!
 
S

SummitFever

Eats Squid
Add to this the array of different seat post sizes and the bullshit "just-to-be-different" bolt circle diameter of XTR cranks, XX, XX1 cranks etc. What a load of crap...
 
moorey

moorey

call me Mia
pharmaboy said:
Yes 15mm no advantage over 20

Tapered versus straight - pleeeeease!

Pressfit v BSA, sort of
BSA v Italian. - just fuck off ITaly - putting a sticker on a colnago doesn't make it Italian ( nuff said)

142 without a wider hub - what a waste

FUCKING HEADSETS!!!!!!! How many does there need to be?

SRAM GPX v bb30 - for a start why does GPX differ from shimano unless you re explicitly trying to be arse, second, why do GPS cranks undo from the left and bb30 from drive side ? This is proof positive that you are a company full of fuckwits before you even bought avid brakes

203mm rotor v 200mm - cunts!
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As stated, if tapered is sooooo much better, and I'm not convinced for most applications, just go 1.5. More betterer again.
I hear ya on headsets, You need a degree in bikeology to be confident when ordering for modern bikes. :rant:
 
pharmaboy

pharmaboy

Eats Squid
moorey said:
As stated, if tapered is sooooo much better, and I'm not convinced for most applications, just go 1.5. More betterer again.
I hear ya on headsets, You need a degree in bikeology to be confident when ordering for modern bikes. :rant:
Click to expand...
I've got said degree from the Ponds Institute, and really, the semester on headsets was entirely lacking ( I assume the head & facial 301 was for that)

Muzspeed, that's soooo 2014
 
MarioM

MarioM

Likes Dirt
pharmaboy said:
I've got said degree from the Ponds Institute, and really, the semester on headsets was entirely lacking ( I assume the head & facial 301 was for that)

Muzspeed, that's soooo 2014
Click to expand...
Nice one , i was saying to a mate this morning about last year being 2013 , then thought about what i said forgot to unclip and promptly fell over . Why not just make it one year all the time for simple folk like me ?
 
Calvin27

Calvin27

Eats Squid
Front hub: qr > 20mm fair enough. 15mm wtf!
Rear hub: qr > 150mm fair enough. 142, pretty much 135 with bolt on, fair enough. 148+? WTF!!!
Bottom brackets: Moving to threaded or press fit - seems ok. BB86/92? stop it already!
Headsets: Kill me already.
Steerer: 1/18 > 1.5 fair enough. Tapered - SHOW ME THE WEIGHT SAVINGS! OD2 - I maintain this is a good thing to show that the bike manufacturers they can't always pull their bullshit especially if giant can't do it!
Rotors: 6 bolt, Centrelock. Annoying but not crazy since centrelock is better imo. but seriously shimano, you guys agreed to the 6 bolt standard! Some weird rotor sizes but I think we iron all the imperial stuff out haha.
Seatpost: Seriously it's just a tube guys, can we just stick to maybe 2?
Cranks: possibly the worst of the lot. GXP, isis, hollowtech. wtf is going on?
RD hanger- how hard is it really?
Brake mounts: Post mount or whatever the other one is? All it does is give some chinese dude a lot of money to make parts with spare alu for $5 a pop on crc!
Wheel sizes - all good from me. I think if a bike can be bigger/smaller, why not wheels. Lets keep it at 3 though guys! I've overheard 36ers are the craze.
Shifters: Can we all just take a lead from sram and go for 1:1 standard!!! I like to make drop bar mtbs ffs!
Handle bars: 31.7 or whatever is good, we do not need a bigger one!
Integrated shifters: Can we just make a standard! I like sram shifters but shimano brakes.
Brakes: Avid taperbore. Actually, just avid... and dot fluid too.

Kudos to these one for trying to innovate/market without screwing the world over:
- GT Triple triangle
- Spesh Brain
- Giant Maestro and Flexpoint
- Trek G2 - normal forks still fit! lose a bit of trail, all good.

And I know this is a MTB forum but seriously when will Campy just die?
 
John U

John U

MTB Precision
pharmaboy said:
- cunts!
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I just couldn't bring myself to say it, but that was the direction I was heading.

Name the 'innovators' if you can.

35mm handlebars, WTF. Thanks Easton.

I believe Chris King was fighting the move away from a 'standard' headset all the way. Props to them.
 
marc.r

marc.r

Likes Dirt
John U said:
I just couldn't bring myself to say it, but that was the direction I was heading.

Name the 'innovators' if you can.

35mm handlebars, WTF. Thanks Easton.

I believe Chris King was fighting the move away from a 'standard' headset all the way. Props to them.
Click to expand...
was just about to say 35mm handlebars and stems WTF WHY? because the haven bar fad of 2013 was starting to taper off so they needed a new reason for people to buy their shit?
 
moorey

moorey

call me Mia
Got my first 144x12 frame recently, someone told me him much stiffer I would find the wheels. I asked why was that? He said wider hub, wider flange, stiffer. I asked him how changing the adapters on his hope hubs made the wheel stronger/stiffer....he argued for a short time, then the penny dropped...
 
MARKL

MARKL

Eats Squid
moorey said:
Got my first 144x12 frame recently, someone told me him much stiffer I would find the wheels. I asked why was that? He said wider hub, wider flange, stiffer. I asked him how changing the adapters on his hope hubs made the wheel stronger/stiffer....he argued for a short time, then the penny dropped...
Click to expand...
Cunts! When did 144 come in? I was just getting on board with 142. I would assume a typo but I know another standard is more likely!
 
S

SummitFever

Eats Squid
What I find even more irritating then the pointless new standards are the early adopters who review the stuff and can magically tell the difference etc.

NOX composites make carbon rims and have an interesting article on rim stiffness. Their rim is 2x as vertically stiff as a similar alu rim. They do some calculations on what this actually means and here is the pertinent quote "From the table above, you can see that the difference in deflection between an aluminum rim and a carbon rim is (at maximum) 0.009 inches. That's about the thickness of 9 human hairs! In short, it's just not possible for a rider to discern that small of a change..." - http://www.noxcomposites.com/wheel_building

It'll be the same with the tapered steerer. It may be 20% stiffer (just pulling a figure out of thin air), but if the flex in the straight steerer is say 1mm then the tapered is 0.8mm. Could you feel the difference?
 
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