Ohlins TTX2Air Vs. Cane Creek Double Barrel Kitsuma Air

johnny

I'll tells ya!
Staff member
So I'm a bit stuck on which of these shocks to get for the Hyrax as both have dis/advantages.

Regards performance, I think that they're likely to be about the same. Reviews of the products seem to be generally good with each having minor issues as per the individual rider testing them. But there are a couple of points that I'm stuck on:

Ohlins: $1100
Pro: can be serviced by the owner
Con: High speed compression has only three settings - fully open, firm and (near) locked

Cane Creek: $950
Pro: High level of adjustability - High/low speed compression + High/low speed rebound + fully open, firm and (near) locked
Con: CC shocks can only be serviced by pros - CC don't release guides to allow owners to do it for themselves.


The Ohlins sounds like a great shock, but I really struggle to get past the lack of tuning that can be done on it. The cane Creek also sounds good, but I struggle to get passed what it's likely to cost to service the fucker.

Another small issues is that the original Kitsumas that were released in 2020 had to be improved around a couple of small areas (more pronounced clicks on the dialing and some compression changes). These issues were improved after the first run. I'm not sure how I can make sure that I get a second run model than one of the earlier ones that didn't enjoy the upgrades.

Keen to get thoughts from the brains trust.
 

kten

understands stuff moorey doesn't
They cost the same to service.

Re the adjustability….finding a good set up easily on the Ohlins is partly because there isn’t much adjustability and also partly because the valving feels good and acts like it’s supposed to. The CC has many, many options to get an average set up if you don’t know what you’re doing. Because the damping range is so large, the amount of damping between each click can be bigger than you want leaving you wanting half a click.
My personal preference is the Ohlins, I just like how they feel but either can work and work well…if you can set up a shock.
 

johnny

I'll tells ya!
Staff member
@kten From what I read, the Ohlins can be serviced by the user, though. They've released the guides/how tos where CC has not. You have no choice but to send the CC away for a service. I hear what you're saying about knowing how to set up a shock. I don't, but figure I can learn.

Have you actually ridden both? That's a genuine question, not trying to imply anything. There's a lot of pretty decent rider reviews of the Ohlins, but not so many on the CC.
 

shiny

Go-go-gadget-wrist-thingy
@kten From what I read, the Ohlins can be serviced by the user, though. They've released the guides/how tos where CC has not. You have no choice but to send the CC away for a service. I hear what you're saying about knowing how to set up a shock. I don't, but figure I can learn.

Have you actually ridden both? That's a genuine question, not trying to imply anything. There's a lot of pretty decent rider reviews of the Ohlins, but not so many on the CC.
Not for the damper service last I looked. Air can only. Send in for damper service.
 

Scotty675

Likes Bikes and Dirt
I haven’t ridden both so can’t comment on the cc.
I will say that I’d be very surprised if you can’t find your happy place on the ttx.
I absolutely love mine and have done minimal tweaking apart from adding a few more psi from recommended settings.
 

Oddjob

Can hench anywhere any time
What exactly are you looking for in the shock? Why air shocks only?

I wouldn't worry about the lack of high speed adjustability in the Ohlins. Realistically you really aren't going to be spending a lot of time pushing the high speed circuit. I suspect you would be happy with either the low or medium HSC setting.

Both shocks use the same twin tube technology. The CCDB has been around for a while now and most of the kinks have been worked out. The Ohlins probably has the edge on reliability and will be easier to tune. The service cost for both will be the same and the same places will do the servicing, i.e. nsdynamics and MTB suspension centre.

If the Hyrax is a stiff frame with a lot anti-squat, also check out the DVO Topaz.

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johnny

I'll tells ya!
Staff member
What exactly are you looking for in the shock? Why air shocks only?

I wouldn't worry about the lack of high speed adjustability in the Ohlins. Realistically you really aren't going to be spending a lot of time pushing the high speed circuit. I suspect you would be happy with either the low or medium HSC setting.

Sent from my M2012K11AG using Tapatalk
I prefer the feel of an air shock, haven't ridden spring in 16 years now, since I sold the last DH bike.

What am I looking for? It's not an easy question to answer, and that's what had led me to the CC. The shock I have now is pretty average and doesn't meet the standard of the rest of the bike. It's got a low amount of adjustability and it shits me a little bit. So I look at the CC and the level of adjustability leads me to think that I'll be able to find what makes me satisfied within all that variability. Not the greatest logic, I'll admit.

I have ridden a shock that had similar settings as the Ohlins. It was an RS Monarch, which had the three settings and rebound. I was actually relatively happy with that, but I can't help wondering if I could be happier with more variability in choice. OF course, I may hate it too!

It's interesting that none of the Ohlins reviews complained about not having enough adjustability. Whereas, as @kten has mentioned, some of the reviews of the CC said that the difference between clicks is pretty large on the DBA Kitsuma.
 

Flow-Rider

Burner
They're both top tier shocks, it's like picking a BMW between a Merc. I can get about 3000kms of trail riding before my CC DB needs servicing, you can hear the oil is aerated and feel the performance of the shock reducing, you're meant to service way before 3000kms. One thing with the CC aircans I found, is that they're very linear, if you're not careful they blow through the travel very easily, although You can add bands to aircan to make them more progressive. I've never found the dials to be too coarse with adjustments, but the shock does take a long time to set up for the first time. There's a phone app to help set them up for the first time if needed.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.canecreek.TuningTech_2015&hl=en&gl=US
 

link1896

Is not a gynaecologist but will look at your fork
If I had to chose, I’d take the Ohlins.


Ohlins, old company that has a long history making premium Moto suspension. QC is top notch. Damper service kits are available, serviceable by any skilled suspension shop. No videos published for end users to perform a damper service, but it is something a skilled suspension shop can manage. When I pull apart Ohlins stuff I’m always left impressed by the quality. Service kits here: https://s4suspension.com/products/ohlins-shock-damper-rebuild-kits?variant=42353054286043






Cane Creek, a relative new comer to suspension, licensed Ohlins tech in the past, they made some fundamental design miss steps in gen1 of their twin tube shocks. Almost went bankrupt in 2015/2016. QC has been pretty ordinary from the ones I’ve had apart, even gen2 of the Double Barrel inline products. They have engineered their shocks with unique assembly techniques requiring very unique tools, in an attempt to lock out non authorised repair, and demanding massive fees to become an authorised repair agent. That’s greedy, profiteering practices. Fuck that with a dirty stick. Mates running large volume suspension shops overseas speak poorly of Cane Creek and their business practices vs their competitors.



Less oil shearing in the Ohlins design vs the cane creek, so longer oil life, the piston head is solid in Ohlins ttx2air, all of the dampening happens in the shim stacks at the adjusters, which I believe Ohlins has a patent for.

I’d also look at the fox float x2, trunnion mount is 205 x 60, looks like the Hyrax was designed for a 205x57.5 trunnion mount, possible the linkage/tyre doesn’t bottom out with 60mm stroke. You can add a bump stop inside the shock, but requires damper to be disassembled, $$. Fox learnt from their mistakes and realised that the way forward is published service documents and YouTube clips.

You’d be best to find other Hyrax owners and find ones who have direct experience with these shocks to help you chose.
 

kten

understands stuff moorey doesn't
@kten From what I read, the Ohlins can be serviced by the user, though. They've released the guides/how tos where CC has not. You have no choice but to send the CC away for a service. I hear what you're saying about knowing how to set up a shock. I don't, but figure I can learn.

Have you actually ridden both? That's a genuine question, not trying to imply anything. There's a lot of pretty decent rider reviews of the Ohlins, but not so many on the CC.
I have plenty of time on the air and coil Ohlins TTX and the Kitsuma coil. The Kitsuma air I have ridden and set up only a couple of times so I have the least amount of time on it.

I'm currently playing around with 2022 Fox X2's which is another option for you. Lots of complaints re reliability but I've had no drama with the three I've been messing around with. Again, lots of adjustability and they can take a while to dial in like the CC. They can usually be made to feel quite good (depending on frame) but the only reason I'm trying the X2 is that very rarely do the Ohlins come up secondhand at a decent price.

What about the Manitou Mara that's for sale on here? Haven't ridden one but I'd think that would be an improvement on what you currently have.
 

Oddjob

Can hench anywhere any time
I prefer the feel of an air shock, haven't ridden spring in 16 years now, since I sold the last DH bike.

What am I looking for? It's not an easy question to answer, and that's what had led me to the CC. The shock I have now is pretty average and doesn't meet the standard of the rest of the bike. It's got a low amount of adjustability and it shits me a little bit. So I look at the CC and the level of adjustability leads me to think that I'll be able to find what makes me satisfied within all that variability. Not the greatest logic, I'll admit.

I have ridden a shock that had similar settings as the Ohlins. It was an RS Monarch, which had the three settings and rebound. I was actually relatively happy with that, but I can't help wondering if I could be happier with more variability in choice. OF course, I may hate it too!

It's interesting that none of the Ohlins reviews complained about not having enough adjustability. Whereas, as @kten has mentioned, some of the reviews of the CC said that the difference between clicks is pretty large on the DBA Kitsuma.
I ask this question because the nature of your bike can determine how it interacts with your shock.

I personally like a really digressive but position sensitive setup, i.e. lots of low speed compression (LSC) and not a lot of high speed compression (HSC) but with a really progressive spring to prevent bottom out.

Normally on a new bike this means winding up the LSC, stuffing the aircan full of spacers and I'm good. But sometimes this has unintended consequences.

So for example I tried this on my Banshee Rune with a Fox X2 and it was terrible, even when I wound off the LSC. It was jarring and just felt too 'stiff'. I swapped to a DVO Topaz and it was amazing. My theory is that, because the Rune has a really stiff rear end and lots of anti-squat, the X2 with it's twin tube, N2 charged piston and poppet valves, couldn't respond quickly enough. The DVO on the other hand with it's bladder and single tube can respond more quickly.

So sometimes having all the dials is not the answer. I don't really lose any adjustment with the DVO it just has coarser lsc adjustment. But the inherent properties of the shock made a huge difference.

I would put the X2 in the same category as the Ohlins and CC, with the Ohlins being the best. The DVO is kind of on its own but I expect the Mara would perform similarly due to its flexible piston face. Lastly we have the Super Deluxe, Float X, Triair etc etc which are the most simple designs.

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komdotkom

Likes Dirt
I have a Kitsuma air on my Bird and I thought it was amazing until I rode my sons bike with a ttx coil.
I didn't have any setup issues with the Kitsuma and I see the wide range of damper adjustment as an advantage, particularly over Fox and RS where the knows are there to make you feel good not actually change the damper settings. Having said that I gave up on Fox when CTD was a new thing so my experience is slightly out of date
 

Isaakk

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Perhaps also consider a 2023 Super Deluxe. Adjustable HSC/LSC with noticeable changes each click, well known platform with custom tuning options and easily available service/parts, hydraulic bottom out, linear and progressive air can options.

Been loving the one I have on the Marino at the moment, only complaint is that the lockout is a very hard lockout - whereas I'd prefer something with a little give, more akin to a Cane Creek lockout. Have been considering whether I'm able to send it off to tune to something lighter.
 

kten

understands stuff moorey doesn't
I ask this question because the nature of your bike can determine how it interacts with your shock.

I personally like a really digressive but position sensitive setup, i.e. lots of low speed compression (LSC) and not a lot of high speed compression (HSC) but with a really progressive spring to prevent bottom out.

Normally on a new bike this means winding up the LSC, stuffing the aircan full of spacers and I'm good. But sometimes this has unintended consequences.

So for example I tried this on my Banshee Rune with a Fox X2 and it was terrible, even when I wound off the LSC. It was jarring and just felt too 'stiff'. I swapped to a DVO Topaz and it was amazing. My theory is that, because the Rune has a really stiff rear end and lots of anti-squat, the X2 with it's twin tube, N2 charged piston and poppet valves, couldn't respond quickly enough. The DVO on the other hand with it's bladder and single tube can respond more quickly.

So sometimes having all the dials is not the answer. I don't really lose any adjustment with the DVO it just has coarser lsc adjustment. But the inherent properties of the shock made a huge difference.

I would put the X2 in the same category as the Ohlins and CC, with the Ohlins being the best. The DVO is kind of on its own but I expect the Mara would perform similarly due to its flexible piston face. Lastly we have the Super Deluxe, Float X, Triair etc etc which are the most simple designs.

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I chased a decent set up on my Titan so I'm thinkin the Rune should be similar but getting the HSC right on it was critical. The Topaz has very light compression damping and works well but the HSC spring on the ?2 (the button between the Z and the C on my keyboard has stopped fucking working) can be a little stout depending on the tune and this contributed hugely to the compliance issues I experienced on that bike.
 
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