Newly Released Suspension & Components General

Mattyp

Cows go boing
This.

Burnishing bushings should be a pre requisite from the factory for all forks >$1,000.

The amount of fucking around caused by too loose or too tight bushings costs more than the bean counters think.
The reality is factories in China/Taiwan just slap the suspension together with little care. My brand new fox36s on the spectral had zero grease under the seals. Even if they are supposed to do it right I imagine the moment a supervisor turns their back it all goes out the window.
I was pretty impressed that the folks at DVOnz are stripping and burnishing every new set of forks and lowers they sell, and it's this that local stockists should be doing to ensure they are providing a quality product.
It doesn't fix the OEM supplied forks but would give a bit of piece of mind, or you know, if someone found themselves with a poorly put together premium fork they would offer to do something about it.
I had a sook to Fox Australia about my forks and despite getting a response about it from the GM they did ziltch. I guess as far as they were concerned I had fixed their fuck up and there was nothing left for them to do.
 

kten

understands stuff moorey doesn't
The reality is factories in China/Taiwan just slap the suspension together with little care. My brand new fox36s on the spectral had zero grease under the seals. Even if they are supposed to do it right I imagine the moment a supervisor turns their back it all goes out the window.
I was pretty impressed that the folks at DVOnz are stripping and burnishing every new set of forks and lowers they sell, and it's this that local stockists should be doing to ensure they are providing a quality product.
It doesn't fix the OEM supplied forks but would give a bit of piece of mind, or you know, if someone found themselves with a poorly put together premium fork they would offer to do something about it.
I had a sook to Fox Australia about my forks and despite getting a response about it from the GM they did ziltch. I guess as far as they were concerned I had fixed their fuck up and there was nothing left for them to do.
Jesse at DVO NZ is a legend (and I'm picky who I say deserves that title). They have such a customer service driven operation and genuinely want every product that goes out the door to be the best it can be. I have only good things to say about the boys down there. They have what I would term as a normal amount of commonsense but given how lacking that simple thing is everywhere else then it accordingly has to be elevated to a sensational level of commonsense.

Apparently I'm a fan boy lol.

Fox Australia.....two experiences with them. One was fine but the second was comical so the jury is out on them (they tried to refuse warranty work on the sloppy bushings because the damper was modified).

I'm quietly hoping the new Rockshox gear is actually good.
 

Squidfayce

Eats Squid
(they tried to refuse warranty work on the sloppy bushings because the damper was modified).

oooh i hate that sort of thinking.

I had a faulty potentially exploding samsung s9 that was subject to a recall that Telstra tried to refuse to replace due to a broken screen which they wanted me to paqy them to replace before dealing with the warranty....it did not go well for them
 

Cardy George

Piercing rural members since 1981
Oh really. Don’t follow him on the Strava. Which challenge?
Don't get too excited. ⅓ was in my usual to and from work and the other ⅔ was incidental while doing Zwift workouts. Still working thru the rookie steps before I'm allowed to have a crack at some proper climbing like Alpe du Zwift.
 

shiny

Go-go-gadget-wrist-thingy
Yeah... Not so sure about the meadow. It's kind of a nothing green and won't really go with much. But it is a green, so can't complain too much. :p
Definitely not an eye frying green like DVO. If planning to run it would need all neutral colours eg black/silver or end up looking like 2yrs old art project.
 

smaj

Likes Dirt
Half the SIDs have been warranted for bushing play, only to be replace by another that had bushing play.
Is this still happening? I got mine about 2 months ago. Reading backwards through the SID thread on MTBR, trying to see if it's fixed.

I pulled the legs on mine after a couple of weeks to find there was no oil in there so maybe the ultimate bushing package means they come with lubrication.
I have the Select+, guess that means only selected forks have oil? :)
 
Buttercups or marketing bullshit cups? That is the question.

RS have added these things to the bottom of the airshaft (and damper) and claim that they will reduce 20% of the vibration to your hands because of the connection with the lowers.

The only thing these rubbers bumpers can do is reduce the transmission of forces from the movement of the lowers into the airshaft and the damper. The airshaft and damper then transmit these forces into the upper through friction. So it's only the transmission of forces through the airshaft and damper seals that are being reduced, the friction from the bushing and the seals between the lowers and stanchions is unchanged.

Maybe the engineers can help me here but is there a great deal of friction in those areas? Enough to account for a claimed 20% reduction. I can understand that if you didn't have any lube in there that it would be bad, but the airshaft is usually well lubed and the damper is bathed in oil. I can't see the reduction as more than a couple of percentage points at best...

What am I missing?
I think what you are missing is that your front fork is fairly rigid even under sag until you hit something big enough that the airspring breaks away and starts using up travel. We use low speed compression to help out but it's definitely not perfect. I was riding Harcourt this morning with all that loose over hard and you can feel the gravel in your hands through the front suspension. This constant vibration adds to your fatigue while riding. That's where buttercups do their thing, the layers of rubber in the system munch up that little chatter and the now the fork is always responding from gravel chatter to you big hits.

Back in the late 60s Stihl painted rubber vibration damping and was a huge advantage. You can find rubber vibration damping everywhere in manufacturing, cars, trucks, planes etc. The technology is proven and solid.

My 2 cents
 

ozzybmx

taking a shit with my boobs out
Is this still happening? I got mine about 2 months ago. Reading backwards through the SID thread on MTBR, trying to see if it's fixed.

I have the Select+, guess that means only selected forks have oil? :)
Not sure if they are on top of it now, though I do know they were warranting forks with loose bushing with new forks with loose bushings.
 

PJO

in me vL comy
I think what you are missing is that your front fork is fairly rigid even under sag until you hit something big enough that the airspring breaks away and starts using up travel. We use low speed compression to help out but it's definitely not perfect. I was riding Harcourt this morning with all that loose over hard and you can feel the gravel in your hands through the front suspension. This constant vibration adds to your fatigue while riding. That's where buttercups do their thing, the layers of rubber in the system munch up that little chatter and the now the fork is always responding from gravel chatter to you big hits.

Back in the late 60s Stihl painted rubber vibration damping and was a huge advantage. You can find rubber vibration damping everywhere in manufacturing, cars, trucks, planes etc. The technology is proven and solid.

My 2 cents
I'm not disputing the technology just the claims that it does as much as is claimed in this application. The places where there are rubber connections to stop vibration are not already floating on a cushion of air (as far as I'm aware).

I think the issue with the vibration damping in this scenario must be to do with breakaway force/static friction (stiction). How else is the energy going to transfer in a jarring way directly from the lowers to the uppers (and then to your bars and hands). I'm questioning how much breakaway force is required to move the airspring and damper. Those are the only parts "affected" by the buttercups. The other parts of the fork that have potential to cause stiction are the stanchion seals and bushings, these parts are unaffected by buttercups.

For one it would be quite variable depending on how recently the fork was serviced. I know that the day after I do a lowers service my forks they feel great, and for some time afterwards. So when the stiction from the bushings and stanchion seals is reduced then maybe the buttercups might have some overall affect on the whole feel, but when the fork is not so fresh then buttercups are not going to do much. In a fresh fork maybe they do reduce the vibration by some amount but the vibration reaching the hands in that scenario is much less anyway because the whole system is performing optimally.

I could be totally off the mark, I'm no engineer just a keyboard warrior but I have a questioning mind and what bugs me is the unnecessary complication and hence extra cost in one of my hobbies. The mountain bike industry has made huge leaps in technology and we ride amazing bikes, but there are also bits on our bikes that are questionable or make very minor improvements (lets not start a conversation about hub widths and cranks spindles) and these makes our equipment more complicated and more expensive than it really needs to be. Manufacturers gotta sell more.

If your feel gravel in your hands try dropping your tyre pressure (3-5psi) and see if that helps. Tyre pressure is independent of what the fork is doing. Might do more than buttercups but might also have other side effects, there are trade-offs everywhere. Besides buttercups are only going to affect the first 4-5mm of lowers movement, bigger gravel means same "problems" as before.

My 3 dollars.

EDIT: "leaving you feeling fresh with more control" :D:rolleyes:
389955
 
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shiny

Go-go-gadget-wrist-thingy
I'm not disputing the technology just the claims that it does as much as is claimed in this application. The places where there are rubber connections to stop vibration are not already floating on a cushion of air (as far as I'm aware).

I think the issue with the vibration damping in this scenario must be to do with breakaway force/static friction (stiction). How else is the energy going to transfer in a jarring way directly from the lowers to the uppers (and then to your bars and hands). I'm questioning how much breakaway force is required to move the airspring and damper. Those are the only parts "affected" by the buttercups. The other parts of the fork that have potential to cause stiction are the stanchion seals and bushings, these parts are unaffected by buttercups.

For one it would be quite variable depending on how recently the fork was serviced. I know that the day after I do a lowers service my forks they feel great, and for some time afterwards. So when the stiction from the bushings and stanchion seals is reduced then maybe the buttercups might have some overall affect on the whole feel, but when the fork is not so fresh then buttercups are not going to do much. In a fresh fork maybe they do reduce the vibration by some amount but the vibration reaching the hands in that scenario is much less anyway because the whole system is performing optimally.

I could be totally off the mark, I'm no engineer just a keyboard warrior but I have a questioning mind and what bugs me is the unnecessary complication and hence extra cost in one of my hobbies. The mountain bike industry has made huge leaps in technology and we ride amazing bikes, but there are also bits on our bikes that are questionable or make very minor improvements (lets not start a conversation about hub widths and cranks spindles) and these makes our equipment more complicated and more expensive than it really needs to be. Manufacturers gotta sell more.

If your feel gravel in your hands try dropping your tyre pressure (3-5psi) and see if that helps. Tyre pressure is independent of what the fork is doing. Might do more than buttercups but might also have other side effects, there are trade-offs everywhere. Besides buttercups are only going to affect the first 4-5mm of lowers movement, bigger gravel means same "problems" as before.

My 3 dollars.
One of the articles I read say the buttercups allow 4mm of movement and are a wear item so presume they are pretty soft. I wonder how they compare to a coil negative. Going by the marketing it should reduce those small little bumps a bit but as they wear will the fork become harsher?

Hmm interested to see how they go long term, has there been any long term tests on the flight attendant forks as they had them first.
 

Mr Crudley

Glock in your sock
The claim is a 20% reduction in some particular vibrations. I am sceptical that you could feel that.
They missed the magic 33% improvement :)

I'm sure the buttercups idea has its merits.
Will be interesting to see how they perform in the real world or if they end up splitting or have some issues as time moves on. See how it goes.

I didn't think it was that bad to feel some trail chatter but there you go. Modern forks are already very well done. RS usually has some backward compatibility / upgradability so we might have options.

If it is that good then Fox 2024 will introduce the revolutionary Fox Paws that has 33% of vibration reduction.
 
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