Mont 24 advice

[pharmaboy]

The T&C's (don't have them in front of me right now) stated no refunds after a particular date, so why are people whinging about not getting one? I'm really puzzled by this.

The reason why cleeshoy is that T&C s is this country are regulated by fair trading legislation and the ACCC. People don't generally read them because they are largely irrelevant especially when you cannot vary the contract . Have you read iTunes agreements yourself? It's a typical example and would take a solid 3 or 4 hours to read.

If you signed a contract for the supply of a car and they didn't supply it but kept your money - it wouldn't matter a pinch of shit what was in the contract , the principal action of the contract hasn't been fulfilled so the conditions are void and the money returnable .

Read the contract for your mortgage? Your credit card? No, why would you, you can't change the contract, you sign it because you want the product and trust both the company you are dealing with and the regulators to protect you.

Btw, the only person who sees the T&Cs on sign up is the captain of the team - by the time I saw them, it was too late anyway.

 

[Ky1e]

My thoughts..

Happy with decision to cancel, I was there and it was fucked.
Pissed they haven't rescheduled.
Had no intention of riding the Kowalski classic and getting 50% discount doesn't change my mind on this.
Think they should be offering 50% for next year's mont, and if they cannot do this I won't be racing an SPE event ever again. And that makes me upset because their events are cracking.

 

[ChopSticks]

The T&C's (don't have them in front of me right now) stated no refunds after a particular date, so why are people whinging about not getting one? I'm really puzzled by this.

as I have already stated, I dont care if the T&C has been read to me til the cows come home... IS IT LEGAL is my question !

also pointed out by Evan on FB.... we paid for $12.50 and $20 for camping/insurance.... neither of those did we use.... so shouldn't $32.50 be refunded at the least?

The reason why cleeshoy is that T&C s is this country are regulated by fair trading legislation and the ACCC. People don't generally read them because they are largely irrelevant especially when you cannot vary the contract . Have you read iTunes agreements yourself? It's a typical example and would take a solid 3 or 4 hours to read.

Btw, the only person who sees the T&Cs on sign up is the captain of the team - by the time I saw them, it was too late anyway.

Great points Pharmaboy!
If one was to read the itune's T&C... you'll understand/agree to signing away your soul and ANY information stored on your phone... private/nude pictures and movies... yet you still use it :noidea:
Already know some guys contacting ACCC tomorrow... would be keen to hear what they have to say too... the more the merrier I'm sure.

Had no intention of riding the Kowalski classic and getting 50% discount doesn't change my mind on this.
Think they should be offering 50% for next year's mont, and if they cannot do this I won't be racing an SPE event ever again.

agree with you Kyle.

 

[johnny]

The question about the camping and insurance fees are an interesting one, gotta say.



I'm planning to hit the Scott24 this year, will be reading the T&C pretty thoroughly before I do.

 

[nandez]

Not sure it's legal to not refund inspite of terms and conditions. No amount of 'terms and conditions' take away or suspend laws in place to protect consumers. Class action anyone? I'm in for one. As a student that 180 was my one and only event a year I can pay, sure if you're working you may be able to afford to just move on, but I felt quilty as hell paying for an event I can't afford, now I just feel robbed by faceless thieves. I will make sure never to put my one golden egg on any SPE event and only trust those events that refund or give free entry to an alternative.

 

[ChopSticks]

welcome to Rotorburn Hernan

I'm sure $180 for anyone is alot of money.... prob a days work for some people!
Class action might be abit OTT....but I'm sure there enough disgruntle customers phoning up ACCC for them to do something..... I for one will be calling them up tomorrow.

 

[moorey]

Sorta reminds me of all the parents suing when little jimmy hurt himself on the local playground....then complaining and lamenting that all the playgrounds have been removed, and there's nothing for the kids to do anymore.
Class action? Really?
I bet event organizers will be falling over themselves to run future races, and sponsors will be lined up around the corner.

As I've said, no horse in this race, but, really?

 

[Minlak]

Sorta reminds me of all the parents suing when little jimmy hurt himself on the local playground....then complaining and lamenting that all the playgrounds have been removed, and there's nothing for the kids to do anymore.
Class action? Really?
I bet event organizers will be falling over themselves to run future races, and sponsors will be lined up around the corner.

As I've said, no horse in this race, but, really?

Gulp this pains me no end .... You are an intelligent man Moorey I am sure you have noticed the decline in society towards litigation? The truth is right now there is money to be made not by the organisers but by disgruntled race goers. There are companies that this is all they do troll the net for opportunities to litigate. No win no fee from a lot of them too.

I said it before and I'll say it again the only options these guys had was a substantial refund or open books. The contract by the ACCC wording is invalid.

I too am just an intrigued bystander in this one I have 35 years experience in retail / customer service which is why my interest is piqued here.

 

[preemo]

Sorta reminds me of all the parents suing when little jimmy hurt himself on the local playground....then complaining and lamenting that all the playgrounds have been removed, and there's nothing for the kids to do anymore.
Class action? Really?
I bet event organizers will be falling over themselves to run future races, and sponsors will be lined up around the corner.

As I've said, no horse in this race, but, really?

Sorry , but the analogy is irrelevant - this is not quite the same thing.

Re the other posts on refund - nobody as far as I know says cancelling was the wrong thing to do. Most if not all have great sympathy for SPE and want them to stay in business and put on many events in future BUT the fair thing to do is to say hard costs (excluding profit) was $100 per rider (or whatever), so you can have an $80 refund and refund of camping fees etc. or a $100 credit towards a future SPE event. We all share the pain that way, are disappointed, but agree it is the best outcome and move on.

Finally, those who say a contract was signed - read the earlier threads - good legal explanation why a consumer contract is only legally binding if it meets certain tests, and on that basis the "no refund" clauses are probably not enforceable.

 

[moorey]

Sorry , but the analogy is irrelevant - this is not quite the same thing.

Re the other posts on refund - nobody as far as I know says cancelling was the wrong thing to do. Most if not all have great sympathy for SPE and want them to stay in business and put on many events in future BUT the fair thing to do is to say hard costs (excluding profit) was $100 per rider (or whatever), so you can have an $80 refund and refund of camping fees etc. or a $100 credit towards a future SPE event. We all share the pain that way, are disappointed, but agree it is the best outcome and move on.

Finally, those who say a contract was signed - read the earlier threads - good legal explanation why a consumer contract is only legally binding if it meets certain tests, and on that basis the "no refund" clauses are probably not enforceable.

I've read most, not all. I'll be flamed for saying this, but I reckon a chunk of people just want their refund, regardless of the impact on future events or other punters. They mightn't be saying it...they might be saying everything other than that....but kinda beating around the bush implying it IMHO.
This is no a defense of SPE, and in no way an attack on disgruntled riders, I just don't want to see this stoop to the level of a class action suit.
Absolutely no one won here, and absolutely no one, other than lawyers will win, if this ends up in the courts.

 

[wilddemon]

I've read most, not all. I'll be flamed for saying this, but I reckon a chunk of people just want their refund, regardless of the impact on future events or other punters. They mightn't be saying it...they might be saying everything other than that....but kinda beating around the bush implying it IMHO.
This is no a defense of SPE, and in no way an attack on disgruntled riders, I just don't want to see this stoop to the level of a class action suit.
Absolutely no one won here, and absolutely no one, other than lawyers will win, if this ends up in the courts.

Do you think that SPE made no money? Do you think that SPE are a charity organisation?

 

[Big Tim]

I've been reading this with great interest. I'm signed up for wombat this Sunday and this is day 3 of solid non stop rain in Melb with more to come it appears. I suspect that wombat will be cancelled as the tracks just can't take 1000 plus people grinding them in the mud. They may be able to re rout with some fire trail but who knows.

From the organisers point of view their costs probably don't change much at all. They pay for most of the stuff in advance and can't get a refund if it's wet. They also have massive insurance bills which will go up if everyone starts slipping off the track onto trees? I see great crashes in the dry, can you imagine the wet. Carnage.

Finally if they refund every dollar or even most of every dollar I suspect they won't be in business next year and there won't be a race. I know it's disappointing but what can you do? We can't control weather and riding around a mud destroyed track for a long period isn't many people's idea of fun.

My 2 bobs worth.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[moorey]

Do you think that SPE made no money? Do you think that SPE are a charity organisation?

No.
Do you think they should be out of pocket and go bust after 12 months of unpaid planning?

 

[hifiandmtb]

I would appreciate a partial refund. Just saying...

 

[fridgie]

All this 'out of pocket' talk.....

Do any of you actually believe they wouldn't be insured against this kind of unforeseeable outcome?

Seriously?

If they aren't, then no offence, but they stuffed up royally and deserve to go under. Just saying

 

[cleeshoy]

but I reckon a chunk of people just want their refund, regardless of the impact on future events or other punters.

This is the smartest thing you've ever said moorey :-D
Agree 100%.

 

[pharmaboy]

Response to the "I'm alright Jack, it's not me whose lost out - fuck the rest of you brigade"


If the consumers and racers just sit back and say ok, no probs, what effect will that have on future behaviour?

In this case, the race was cancelled because the campsite was inoperable - promoter does well no matter how shit the camping ground - if you are still profitable what's the motivation for choosing alternatives

Racers had no control over where the campsite was yet absorbed 100% of the event risk.

Event insurance for cancellation - the only person who can organise this is the promoter, who have no motivation for it, because they aren't protecting their own interest , only the interest of others - ie their customers.

Reschedule - rescheduling would have involved extra cost, they didn't reschedule because of a low risk of rain at the next date on 28day outlook (?) or next season because it conflicted with their buddies at the Scott24. Real motivation seems to be money

If we reward this by inaction and continued support, then future promoters will not carry event cancellation insurance, will not reschedule if they can, will err on the side of cancellation if in doubt, and will encourage other promoters to treat their customers similarly badly.

It's not good for the people who have paid up, and it will encourage future promoters t act similarly .

 

[moorey]

Response to the "I'm alright Jack, it's not me whose lost out - fuck the rest of you brigade"


If the consumers and racers just sit back and say ok, no probs, what effect will that have on future behaviour?

In this case, the race was cancelled because the campsite was inoperable - promoter does well no matter how shit the camping ground - if you are still profitable what's the motivation for choosing alternatives

Racers had no control over where the campsite was yet absorbed 100% of the event risk.

Event insurance for cancellation - the only person who can organise this is the promoter, who have no motivation for it, because they aren't protecting their own interest , only the interest of others - ie their customers.

Reschedule - rescheduling would have involved extra cost, they didn't reschedule because of a low risk of rain at the next date on 28day outlook (?) or next season because it conflicted with their buddies at the Scott24. Real motivation seems to be money

If we reward this by inaction and continued support, then future promoters will not carry event cancellation insurance, will not reschedule if they can, will err on the side of cancellation if in doubt, and will encourage other promoters to treat their customers similarly badly.

It's not good for the people who have paid up, and it will encourage future promoters t act similarly .

Quoted, so that when you sober up, you can have a good hard look at yourself.

 

[pharmaboy]

Quoted, so that when you sober up, you can have a good hard look at yourself.

Just trying to make it seem like it's in your own interest moorey. - I'll get back to my morning scotch and soda now.

 

[Unlearn]

I didn't read the TC's, so excuse my ignorance, but even if they stated no refunds my impression from this would be that it was designed to protect the promoter from riders withdrawing?