Midlife cricycle project bike! Sub 10kg with pedals and a dropper? *Bike built post #61*

[slowmick]

Shimano brakes used to be super reliable. I had some old Deore M555 brakes that just worked. They would go years without needing a bleed. My 785s were much more reliable that the Magura Martas they replaced. I have since replaced 2 levers over 4 sets when the levers just died. I gave a set to a mate for his 40th birthday and both levers shit the bed.

I don't notice the wandering bite point. I do like the single syringe bleed - i am unco-ordinated. Now that the cheap sets from the UK have dried up it my be time to look at other brands but i have enough spare pads to last me until the apocalypse.

My opinion doesn't count though as I have Guide R on my downhill bike and avids on my commuter. If they work I use them until they stop then replace them - usually with shimano out of laziness.

 

[Jabubu]

Are you asking me?

Sorry, that was meant for @Cardy George

 

[Oddjob]

Serious question. And a bit off topic. I have not seen a brake with more reports of broken, leaking, lever going to the bar, wandering bite point, can’t really buy spares or rebuild them from shimano etc etc. why are they considered such a good brake?
The pick a side and be a dick about it crew swear by Shimano brakes, so do Srambois but not as much (I’m talking generally on internet) yet I see a million posts and anecdotal reports of their levers just being shit.
Frenchy ended up buying TS brakes because he went through about eleventy billion levers. Moorebags went through a stage of looking for endless shimano levers because of failures. I meet him for a ride and one of his bikes the lever goes to the bar and has zero power presumably from hanging on the rack. Eventually came good but took a while and almost an emergency bleed.
So what’s go?

There's 2 things going on. Shimano and SRAM sell more brakes than all the others combined by orders of magnitude. So just because there are more brakes in the wild, you get more reports.

The 'official' bleed method with the bleed cup is rubbish. It tends to leave micro bubbles in the reservoir. I believe this is partly what leads to the wandering bite point. I have literally had a set of M8000s that wandered until I used the 2 syringe method of bleeding and then it was fixed.

As for the leaking master cylinders, weeping ceramic pistons, buggered olives etc, these are issues but not super common.

Also, it's not like SRAM, Magura, Hope and even Trickstuff don't have issues of one sort or another.

If you want a truly bulletproof brake get TRPs. They are built like tanks. Parts are fully replaceable but availability is questionable. I've also had a really good run with Formula Cura 4s but they can be a shit to bleed well.

Sent from my M2012K11AG using Tapatalk

 

[Jpez]

There's 2 things going on. Shimano and SRAM sell more brakes than all the others combined by orders of magnitude. So just because there are more brakes in the wild, you get more reports.

The 'official' bleed method with the bleed cup is rubbish. It tends to leave micro bubbles in the reservoir. I believe this is partly what leads to the wandering bite point. I have literally had a set of M8000s that wandered until I used the 2 syringe method of bleeding and then it was fixed.

As for the leaking master cylinders, weeping ceramic pistons, buggered olives etc, these are issues but not super common.

Also, it's not like SRAM, Magura, Hope and even Trickstuff don't have issues of one sort or another.

If you want a truly bulletproof brake get TRPs. They are built like tanks. Parts are fully replaceable but availability is questionable. I've also had a really good run with Formula Cura 4s but they can be a shit to bleed well.

Sent from my M2012K11AG using Tapatalk

Yeah. Every product has issues but if we are talking solely Sram and Shimano I hear of many many more people looking for new levers for various reasons. Not so much sram. If that’s just down to the fact that shimano can’t easily be rebuilt then they can eat a bag.
Yes I’ve rebuilt TRP,s all parts are available but you have to work hard to get it out of them.
Anyway I’ve probably derailed this thread far enough.

 

[Oddjob]

Yeah. Every product has issues but if we are talking solely Sram and Shimano I hear of many many more people looking for new levers for various reasons. Not so much sram. If that’s just down to the fact that shimano can’t easily be rebuilt then they can eat a bag.
Yes I’ve rebuilt TRP,s all parts are available but you have to work hard to get it out of them.
Anyway I’ve probably derailed this thread far enough.

The lack of anodising on the master cylinder is a downer, but I've had M785, Saint, and Zees that just refuse to die. At least SLX levers are cheap replacements.

And if it really shits you that much just get a TRP lever. Bigger up front investment but as I said, tanky. This is not something that you can accuse Magura levers of. Honestly why make a master cylinder that cracks?

Sent from my M2012K11AG using Tapatalk

 

[Cardy George]

Sorry, that was meant for @Cardy George

Oh, right. I've looked, but until I spoil myself and try someone else's something else, it's still $500 to replace something that's working fine.

For the majority of my riding 180mm/160mm, 4-pistons and race matrix pads are already overkill.

If one day I manage to punch out 8 w/kg, then I might change.

 

[k3n!f]

Serious question. And a bit off topic. I have not seen a brake with more reports of broken, leaking, lever going to the bar, wandering bite point, can’t really buy spares or rebuild them from shimano etc etc. why are they considered such a good brake?
So what’s go?

Just to be clear, this brake has 4700km on it and at no stage has this small leak affected the power or performance (it is also probably my installation error causing the leak). My previous XTR brakes have 20,000km on them and have been moved onto my wife's bike and are still going strong.

From my perspective the XTRs are reliable, light and not expensive (per km if you ride a lot). I have had Formula, AVID, Margura brakes in the past and I went with Shimano for this build as they just quietly do their job.

 

[Cardy George]

Just to be clear, this brake has 4700km on it and at no stage has this small leak affected the power or performance (it is also probably my installation error causing the leak). My previous XTR brakes have 20,000km on them and have been moved onto my wife's bike and are still going strong.

From my perspective the XTRs are reliable, light and not expensive (per km if you ride a lot). I have had Formula, AVID, Margura brakes in the past and I went with Shimano for this build as they just quietly do their job.

That's a solid point actually. Two sets of XT with about 10,000 on them each, And the XTRs on this bike have done 6,700 and while they all have their niggles, they haven't changed the whole way through.

 

[k3n!f]

Alright, I've finally opened the box...

The finish on these is really quite beautiful.

I didn't really appreciate the hollow piston concept until I spotted them in RL.

You have to see them to really appreciate how small the levers are.

The bleed kit looks pretty well stocked.

Very cool machined bleed block.

Alright, time for the interesting bit. I've had these brakes for 6 months and haven't put them on because my Shimano shifter and dropper lever mount use I-spec EV and Trickstuff didn't have an I-spec EV mount. That changed about a month ago with the release of the adapter below. The only problem is they have only released a right sided one and my dropper mounts on the left brake lever directly.

Kinda complicated, but it'll do the job nicely.

Time to call in a favour from my dad

 

[k3n!f]

I don't get to make anything in my job, which gives me a huge amount of respect for people who do. I gave my dad a CNC machined part and he made a mirror image version manually in a day. 10/10 service!

 

[Ultra Lord]

I don't get to make anything in my job, which gives me a huge amount of respect for people who do. I gave my dad a CNC machined part and he made a mirror image version manually in a day. 10/10 service!

Fucken tradies. You’re a much nicer son than me, I’d have asked why he didn’t paint it black haha.
But you only after I had it in my hand so he can’t take it back.

 

[wkkie]

I can only speak for myself here.

I like the ergonomics of Shimano levers. I didn't like mag mt5 levers but mt7 hc are great (for me). Too bad they are fucking expensive to replace!

SLX are my fav Shimano lever as they are serviceable, though the parts are hard to get. Shimano don't want end users to service their brakes, they want them to buy whole units.

XTR m9000 levers are extremely lightweight, so I guess it appeals to gram counters. I prefer a lever that doesn't feel like it can flex laterally in my teenie girl hands. I've still got a set of XTRs on my "adventure" (alt-gravel?) bike, but when they fail it'll be SLX that replaces them.

TL;DR

Shimano: ergonomic, ubiquitous, affordable (comparatively), mineral oil

Magura: reliable, ergenomic (but expensive), mineral oil

And I just don't want to be dealing with dot5 fluid. That's my hangup.

People will have their own reasons for XYZ, these ^^ are mine.

I've had that issue with the leaky levers. Went to TRP and no issues in about 18 months. Mineral oil too.

 

[wkkie]

View attachment 406160

Interesting. Where exactly is this diaphragm located? They seem to be leaking from the junction between the lever and the brake hose which is why I assumed it was my mekanik skills that had let the side down. The photo above is after a day riding at Maydena, maybe getting the system hot is resulting in extra fluid expansion? The levers feel normal, but it must be a reasonable amount of fluid.

That small amount of oil could just be a little hangover from the install.

 

[k3n!f]

That small amount of oil could just be a little hangover from the install.

Sadly, each time I wash it the oil comes back next ride. It can't be much volume though, as I haven't had to top up the reservoir.


In other news:

This just got posted on the mtbr Yeti forum. Rumour has it Yeti is launching a new short travel XC bike. Perhaps I'll hold off putting these on the Epic until I find out what this frame offers. It's probably not smart resuming my role as a Yeti frame destruction tester, but I'm not very smart so that suits me.

 

[k3n!f]

I was stoked when I heard there was a new Yeti XC bike coming out, I was all ready to put in an order.

Now I've seen it online I'm not so sure. Compared with my 2022 Epic EVO the head tube is 0.2 degrees steeper and the reach is 9mm longer. Otherwise on paper they look basically the same. Not sure it'll be worth the cash to change frames.

On the other hand, the new Epic is offering more with longer travel, a slacker head angle and a SWAT box.

If you don't know what to do, the right thing is to do as much nothing as possible. Maybe I'll just stick with the Epic EVO.

 

[Jabubu]

I was stoked when I heard there was a new Yeti XC bike coming out, I was all ready to put in an order.

Now I've seen it online I'm not so sure. Compared with my 2022 Epic EVO the head tube is 0.2 degrees steeper and the reach is 9mm longer. Otherwise on paper they look basically the same. Not sure it'll be worth the cash to change frames.

On the other hand, the new Epic is offering more with longer travel, a slacker head angle and a SWAT box.

If you don't know what to do, the right thing is to do as much nothing as possible. Maybe I'll just stick with the Epic EVO.

How does the SCOR 120 compare?