safreek
Blocked
Agree wholeheartedly
Middle East situation
- Thread starter ForkinGreat
- Start date
ForkinGreat
Knows his Brassica oleracea
Indeed, and that's the tragedy. There have apparently been jewish settlements in the then British controlled territory called Palestine since the late 19th/early 20th century.
Map of Jewish Settlement in Palestine (1881-1914)
Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.
www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org
Jewish settlements in what is supposed to be Palestinian Land has been happening since the 1940s (and probably before), but 'settlement' (sounds so much nicer than driving off the original inhabitants and colonization of those areas with heavily armed protection) has been a focus of Israeli government policy since the 1967 'Six Day War', which resulted in the Israeli seizure of the West Bank and Gaza from Jordanian and Egyptian control, respectively.
Understanding the history of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict in 5 charts
Historical context for the Israel and Hamas conflict is complex but these five charts can help.
theconversation.com
Thankyou. Appreciate the time you took and breakdown. I agree with a lot of it but still have some questions.
Nope I didn't know Palestine wasn't a country. I had thought it had land outside of Gaza/Westbank but that those were just the contested areas. I get that Hamas has the right to be furious but surely the Jews can be for the same reason? If I went further back in time wasn't it all once Palestine, then Israel, then Palestine, then Israel, then Palestine, now Israel?
If Gaza is run by Hamas who are Palestinians and is where Palestinians live then how do people simply separate the 2 in a time of war? For example I just read another news article now of another hospital in Gaza that has Hamas hiding underneath. They have given them a month to get out according to international law and are now going in. Is Israel wrong to attack another hospital?
That's a good one. Will read it through more later. ThanksUnderstanding the history of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict in 5 charts
Historical context for the Israel and Hamas conflict is complex but these five charts can help.
ForkinGreat
Knows his Brassica oleracea
This , I find particularly abhorrent. The Israelis showing a basement with a few RPG rounds, a few AK-47s and some explosives that would be used for suicide attacks. and a frikken motorbike. They were acting like it was a huge cache of weapons of mass destruction, yet I assume it would barely keep a small Hamas militia unit supplied for a short time.
If Hamas were firing RPGs from the hospital, yes, that's shit, but IMO, it speaks of the desperation of Hamas militia fighters in the face of overwhelming opposition of the IDF which is a modern Army and Airforce armed to the teeth with US-sourced weapons, aircraft, tanks and APCs. If the Israelis decide to destroy that childrens' hospital with precision guided bombs for that that little find, it would be massive, and as another poster said, spiteful retaliation. I guess the only reason the hospital itself hasn't been obliterated, is that destroying a childrens' hospital would cement the perception of the Israeli military and government as being soulless shitstains, even more so than currently.
If hamas had any free standing 'military bases', they would have been the first target of Israeli aerial bombardment, and would have ceased to be anything more than rubble.
I also think that whatever Palestinian civilians think of Hamas- if they hated Hamas- I would bet that they hate the Israeli military forces many orders of magnitude more.
If anyone thinks there are "too many links" being posted, they are free to ignore them, but rather than make unsubstantiated claims, there are sources that I have provided to illustrate what I am talking about. If anyone thinks that source articles are not from reputable and 'objective' media outlets, then feel free to provide better ones, and be prepared to support any assertions made, especially regarding your sources.
I welcome anyone to provide universally accepted objective media sources for this unfolding tragedy, and I also fear that universally accepted objective media sources, and articles, may be few and far between.
Israel-Hamas war: what we know on day 40
Thousands trapped inside main Gaza hospital surrounded by Israeli military; Joe Biden calls for al-Shifa hospital to be ‘protected’
www.theguardian.com
Two major Gaza hospitals close to new patients as heavy fighting rages
Al-Shifa and al-Quds hospital without oxygen, medical supplies or fuel to power incubators amid Israeli airstrikes
www.theguardian.com
Jabubu
let you google that for me
It's the continued incursions, stealing of land and killing of Palestinians that rankle them the most. Israel just don't know how to hold what they have, they just keep taking and they aren't punished by the rest of the world.
ForkinGreat
Knows his Brassica oleracea
Whole towns have been wiped off the map in Gaza by the Israelis 
www.abc.net.au
edition.cnn.com
Satellite images show parts of Gaza now a wasteland after weeks of heavy bombardment
Entire neighbourhoods lie in ruins, particularly in northern Gaza, after nearly three weeks of bombardment. With air strikes continuing, these satellite images provide a glimpse of the devastation.
www.abc.net.au
Gaza homes, schools and medical institutions flattened by Israeli airstrikes, Palestinian authorities say
The Israeli military is going on the offense against Hamas with a force "like never before," Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu vowed Monday, more than 48 hours after a devastating and surprising attack that has left at least 900 people dead in Israel.
Who are you and what have you done with hambo?
Litenbror
Eats Squid
Im generally staying well away from this but a quick thought regarding your last point and something Ive tried to use for context.
When the US invaded Iraq and Afghanistan there was a huge amount of urban fighting but the US had to restrain their use of force because of civilians. The battle of Falluja for instance took 3 weeks and there was intense urban fighting but the Americans didnt just flatten the place because the civilians couldn't get out and had no where to go.
Thanks
ozzybmx
Not a tree-hugging earth muffin
At least Hambo rode a bike.
Plankosaurus
Spongeplank Dalepantski
"I get that it isn't popular to support Israel right now but I just can't grasp why there seems to be no balance and people find it so easy to condemn Israel and ignore the role Hamas has played in this (e.g. this entire thread). Hamas have done absolutely horrifying things to people and kids, they are happy to use civilians as cover and shown that the rules of war don't apply to them, and they LITERALLY state that they won't stop until the Jews are exterminated.
What is it exactly that we expect Israel to do about it that is not going to involve Palestinian civilians while still effectively dealing with Hamas?"
Hamas are a bunch of fuckwits, no doubt.
What civilized society should expect from Israel though, is that they don't just chuck a heap of missiles at Gaza in retaliation and tell us it's because they thought there was some Hamas where they hit. Bollocks, this isn't even remotely a defence, this is 100% vindictive retaliation and well below expectations.
Personally, I'd like to expect both sides to not be cunts, and not kill each other. As said above though, one side is a terrorist organisation that no-one is publicly sided with, the other is a country with global support. By default you don't support a terrorist organisation, but what Israel is doing is no better and deserves every bit of the same condemnation.
The solution is to give everyone that wants out of Israel and palestine the opportunity to flee with assistance. The rest of both sides can hang out and hurl insults at each other, then we nuke the site from orbit
Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk
What is it exactly that we expect Israel to do about it that is not going to involve Palestinian civilians while still effectively dealing with Hamas?"
Yeah nah.
Hamas are a bunch of fuckwits, no doubt.
What civilized society should expect from Israel though, is that they don't just chuck a heap of missiles at Gaza in retaliation and tell us it's because they thought there was some Hamas where they hit. Bollocks, this isn't even remotely a defence, this is 100% vindictive retaliation and well below expectations.
Personally, I'd like to expect both sides to not be cunts, and not kill each other. As said above though, one side is a terrorist organisation that no-one is publicly sided with, the other is a country with global support. By default you don't support a terrorist organisation, but what Israel is doing is no better and deserves every bit of the same condemnation.
The solution is to give everyone that wants out of Israel and palestine the opportunity to flee with assistance. The rest of both sides can hang out and hurl insults at each other, then we nuke the site from orbit
Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk
downunderdallas
Likes Dirt
It's hard to see how the situation gets better. It's heartbreaking to hear stories of women and children ruthlessly killed in Israel, it's equally heartbreaking to hear of children dying in a hospital without power, water and medicine. Where will it end, hard to see how Israel will "eliminate Hamas" if the current war creates an even greater level of hatred for them across an even broader section of the Palestinian community. I'm not sure what the end game is for either of them from here.
safreek
Blocked
If the cowards stopped hiding behind women and children and fought a direct war the wholesale slaughter of civilians would cease."I get that it isn't popular to support Israel right now but I just can't grasp why there seems to be no balance and people find it so easy to condemn Israel and ignore the role Hamas has played in this (e.g. this entire thread). Hamas have done absolutely horrifying things to people and kids, they are happy to use civilians as cover and shown that the rules of war don't apply to them, and they LITERALLY state that they won't stop until the Jews are exterminated.
What is it exactly that we expect Israel to do about it that is not going to involve Palestinian civilians while still effectively dealing with Hamas?"
Yeah nah.
Hamas are a bunch of fuckwits, no doubt.
What civilized society should expect from Israel though, is that they don't just chuck a heap of missiles at Gaza in retaliation and tell us it's because they thought there was some Hamas where they hit. Bollocks, this isn't even remotely a defence, this is 100% vindictive retaliation and well below expectations.
Personally, I'd like to expect both sides to not be cunts, and not kill each other. As said above though, one side is a terrorist organisation that no-one is publicly sided with, the other is a country with global support. By default you don't support a terrorist organisation, but what Israel is doing is no better and deserves every bit of the same condemnation.
The solution is to give everyone that wants out of Israel and palestine the opportunity to flee with assistance. The rest of both sides can hang out and hurl insults at each other, then we nuke the site from orbit
Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk
At least isis did a lot of it's fighting man to man, does that make them better than hamas, probably not but it's something to think about.
Maybe the only solution is the photo
LPG
likes thicc birds
Hamas is a terrorist organisation. The civilians that are getting killed are not.
Plankosaurus
Spongeplank Dalepantski
lol. "why dont you come out and fight our overwhelmingly superior forces out in the open"
Dont take this as condoning anything Hamas have done or are doing, but why in the name of fuck would they do that?
The point is that israel are ALSO acting like complete cunts. Hamas being cowards for hiding behind civillians doesn't mean its ok to bomb the shit out of said civillians in the hopes they hit a target or two worth hitting. It's actually completely possible to not take a side in this and condemn the whole shitshow, calling israel out for being dicks doesn't mean you're ok with hamas being dicks.
Again, expectations for a nation thats had widespread support from the world at large would be that they at least attempt to take the higher ground. they're not an underground movement without a real army that's desperate and limited in options, they're an entire nation thats seemingly ok with the wholesale slaughter of civillians because "they did it first". and dont get me started on the thinly veiled inbuilt predjudices we're seeing everywhere - muslim bad, so anything against muslim good
safreek
Blocked
Unfortunately hamas knew this would happen, how Israel would react.
It was all to get worldwide sympathy which it's getting.
Israel has to keep going or the other cowards will pack up and move elsewhere to continue with the raping and beheading of children.
Unfortunately that's the price the strip has to pay
Plankosaurus
Spongeplank Dalepantski
absolute bollocks. you talk like israel's hands are tied and they have no other option, israel are 100% as cowardly as hamas here.
why dont they go in with guns and armour and find the hamases face to face in manly single combat and avoid civillian casualtys? why dont they offer up a fruit and cheese platter in the shape of a peace sign and ask to stop fighting? why dont they just move out and find another sacred holy land surrounded by sand? everything is a better option than this indiscriminate killing.
"an eye for an eye makes the world blind"
you're not going to spamp out aggression built on violence and opression by doubling down, they're just creating more angry and desperate people.
Scotty T
Walks the walk
For fucks sake please stop repeating this bullshit.
/cloudfront-us-east-2.images.arcpublishing.com/reuters/H5V6XJROCZJPRPMVMQWJPJFPDQ.jpg)
Israel releases images of slain children to rally support
Israel's government showed U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken and NATO defence ministers graphic images of dead children and civilians on Thursday, saying they were killed by Palestinian group Hamas as it builds support for its response.
www.reuters.com
Rueters said:
safreek
Blocked
But they did burn them, probably more horrificFor fucks sake please stop repeating this bullshit.
Israel releases images of slain children to rally support
Israel's government showed U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken and NATO defence ministers graphic images of dead children and civilians on Thursday, saying they were killed by Palestinian group Hamas as it builds support for its response.