Marino Bike Co rigs.

Isaakk

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Here's a sneak peak... Managed to get a dry window in among our La Nina weather in Sydney at the moment to get it all laid out. 2 mins after I took this photo it started to rain again!

The build should happen this weekend!
Looking like a fun build!

Mine's more complete. I'm a little worried about rear wheel to seat tube clearance at 160mm if i'm honest:

383356
 

Isildur

The Real Pedant
Righteo, she's built up and I'll get some pictures tomorrow. A couple of very interesting things... And one very annoying thing...

  • Head tube and BB faces were actually flat!
  • The internal dropper and rear derailleur cable runs are guided, which made life much easier considering a typical Park Tool cable set wouldn't work as the whole thing is magnetic ;)
  • The dropper routing is super tight around the downtube to seattube juntion.

Now the annoying thing... It's a bit over 2 degrees slacker than I specified. My phone reads the HA as 61.5 degrees. The seat angle measures as spec'd at 74 degrees, so it's not a "sag/unsagged" geo thing (and my phone reads my Ripmo HA bang on where it should be, so it's fairly accurate as phones go). Right now I'm pretty annoyed and have emailed them to find out what happened and what can be done.

Some may say it's a small thing, but it will change the ride dynamic fairly strongly! The point, for me, of going a custom geo bulid was to get what I asked for, not what I didn't...

More updates to come as I wait for a reply from Marino.
 

Isildur

The Real Pedant
As an edit to the above, looking over my draft again I did actually spec a 76 degree SA, so the 2 degrees appears to have come from them building the frame around an incorrect A2C - perhaps built "sagged" - which sucks as that's not mentioned anywhere at all on their site or during the build process. The wheelbase is also about 30mm longer, which is no surprise if they were building sagged.

So far they have replied quickly overnight, but only to say they meaure the frames correctly in the jig when building and for me to send through a picture of the bike "like it is in the draft" - aka on a flat surface. Needless to say this has been done along with a few other measurements for them.

I've also mentioned this sag/unsagged and politely mentioned that's the reason I supplied an A2C, for the frame to built to spec with that A2C!
 

beeb

Dr. Beebenson, PhD HA, ST, Offset (hons)
As an edit to the above, looking over my draft again I did actually spec a 76 degree SA, so the 2 degrees appears to have come from them building the frame around an incorrect A2C - perhaps built "sagged" - which sucks as that's not mentioned anywhere at all on their site or during the build process. The wheelbase is also about 30mm longer, which is no surprise if they were building sagged.

So far they have replied quickly overnight, but only to say they meaure the frames correctly in the jig when building and for me to send through a picture of the bike "like it is in the draft" - aka on a flat surface. Needless to say this has been done along with a few other measurements for them.

I've also mentioned this sag/unsagged and politely mentioned that's the reason I supplied an A2C, for the frame to built to spec with that A2C!
I had a similar issue with the axle-to-crown measurements when I was trying to get something quoted up from them ages ago. I couldn't figure out why the geo-chart numbers weren't matching up until I twigged the A2C was off. I queried them about it, but they never responded and I abondoned the idea (I think the e-mailed me back after about 5 months or somthing, but I wasn't going to buy from them at that point). They seem to be the only mob that does geo charts that way, not sure why they persist with it as it just creates confusion. Out of curiosity - is the shock shown full length, or compressed at sag in the drawing?
 

Isildur

The Real Pedant
It's a hardtail, so no shock. But the A2C I gave them was 568mm. The drafts showed everything drawn around a 570mm A2C, which was fine.

But now at 570mm A2C the geo is 2 degrees slacker, and the BB about 10mm higher, so it's like they built it with my spec'd geo but with a 530mm A2C.

I've just emailed them to this effect and let's see what comes back. The fact that it's a hardtail should mean the specified A2C is what they build the geo around...
 

Isaakk

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Ready to ship. Colour and graphics came out better than expected. Not much hope for a bottle from the looks of it, and still dubious about rear wheel clearance to seat tube. Weld quality around shock mount seems.. questionable too(?) But I know nothing about welding.

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Isildur

The Real Pedant
The colour looks great - fingers crossed the geo is all sorted!

I haven't heard back form them in the last week since Elijah was going to get Marino to look at it. I sent them another email last night following up (been on holiday for the last week so I've been not worrying about it) mentioning the old PayPal dispute, I'll give them another few days to come back before I lodge it.

Mainly as even on the daycare commutes last week, a few hundred meters each way, it felt really slack but also much shorter in the cockpit due to bein built around the wrong A2C... Given this was my first custom, I would like it to actually be what I ordered ;)
 

Isaakk

Likes Bikes and Dirt
The colour looks great - fingers crossed the geo is all sorted!

I haven't heard back form them in the last week since Elijah was going to get Marino to look at it. I sent them another email last night following up (been on holiday for the last week so I've been not worrying about it) mentioning the old PayPal dispute, I'll give them another few days to come back before I lodge it.

Mainly as even on the daycare commutes last week, a few hundred meters each way, it felt really slack but also much shorter in the cockpit due to bein built around the wrong A2C... Given this was my first custom, I would like it to actually be what I ordered ;)
Communication is definitely slow, that's for sure. Just an idea, maybe worth getting an angleset and asking if they can refund the cost as a quick fix? Doesn't fix the A2C though.
 

Isildur

The Real Pedant
I had considered that TBH, as I've got a spare +/-2 Works in the shed from Ripmo and HD3 experiments. Biggest problem is that it then raises the BB even further and slackens the Seat Angle even further, neither of which I'm particularly keen on.

Last week before I went on holiday their communication was quick and concise, I was getting responses quickly when I emailed either late at night or early morning here (in line with their Peru daytime hours). Just since Elijah was gong to follow up and "make sure Marino looks at it today" it's gone dead in the water.
 

Isaakk

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Sad to say that no, nothing that exotic! Would be swapping all the parts except shock off the Sight (so Nextie/240s wheels, XT/XTR drivetrain, Lyrik Ult etc), still not sure if I just stick with what I have.

Honestly I kind of like a purple/orange colour scheme...
 

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Isildur

The Real Pedant
Well, Marino Bikes have come back to say they'll rebuild a frame to the correct specs, so that's a win,. They want the incorrect frame back, which is fair enough, especially as they have said they'll cover all costs of the return and the re-dispatch of the new frame.

No word on timeline yet as I guess I missed their comunication window this morning (my reply was an hour after I received their email), but fingers crossed they can prioritise it.

Part of me is thinking to potentially offer some sort of compromise now, especially if the wait will be another 14 weeks of building + shipping, which took forever as there aren't many flights coming out of Peru at the moment. But I'm not sure exactly what that looks like. Do I ask for a 50% ish credit, which is a tad more than the freight both ways would likely cost? Or do I ask for my frame to be built, but rather than the expense of returning this one, buy the new frame at a discount... That way they still recoup some cost and I'm not left without a hardtail for another 4 months...

Hmmm, anyone keen on a slack-as HT frame (in a timeframe after my replacement arrives)? Geo would be pretty similar to the right hand side of the clip below (if running a 160mm/570mm A2C fork):

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Isaakk

Likes Bikes and Dirt
I'd see if they'll do your new one at a discount. That should save you both some hassle.

Ask the question, can't hurt...
That would be my pick too if they'll do it. Did they admit that they got the ATC wrong (aka is that what was incorrect)?
 

Isildur

The Real Pedant
Yeah I'm typing the email now as we speak, they seem to start work at about 4:00 or 4:30am their time.

That would be my pick too if they'll do it. Did they admit that they got the ATC wrong (aka is that what was incorrect)?
In so far as they've agreed to replace the frame entirely at their cost. I assume they wouldn't do that if they didn't feel like there was an error on their side.
 

Isildur

The Real Pedant
So, Elijah got back to me tonight, after another couple of days of to-ing and fro-ing on frame imagery, tube length discussions, etc. They have admitted my frame was built around sagged geo from 570 A2C, though they claim only 20mm, rather than the 40mm (25%) to 50mm (30%) that would make the number make sense,

In light of that "Marino" has offered to build me a new frame around non-sagged geo, which accounts for a slightly longer ETT and higher Stack, both of which I'm all good with. Still waiting on whether it's a discounted (by 2x shipping rate) frame, or a send back once the new frame arrives, as I only just sent the email reply. But either way it seems like we've figure out that they calculate all frames around some kind of sag, or with sagged geometry, even hardtail frames.

I'll update as the days progress!
 

Isildur

The Real Pedant
So the new frame geo came through and it looks like what it should be. The learning I've done here is to use the BikeCAD site/program to check geo builds, rather than some of the other sites out there. I think if I'd done that to begin with the first draft numbers wouldn't have made sense.

They've agreed to a discounted frame rather than having to go the whole return & wait situation, which I'm happy with in the end. Means I'm not left without a hardtail for another 4 - 5 months while the build & freight timelines happen.

I'll update and things progress further. Now to go an ride the Marino SS (no, not Single Speed, but Super Slack!). I suppose I should do a PMR as well, given I really do like the look now that it's built up!
 

Isildur

The Real Pedant
Szia, építem a Marino keretemet, és kíváncsi vagyok, hogyan működik a curtis verzio keret? Sokan azt mondják, hogy stabilabb, mint a seregély váz, és jobban mászni köszi a válaszát
Welcome to the site! Being an Aussie site I had no idea what you'd written. But Google tells me it's Hungarian and has suggested this for others who might want to answer:

Hi, I'm building my Marino frame and I'm wondering how the curtis verzio frame works? Many say it is more stable than the starling skeleton and thanks to its response to climb better
 
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