Is this asbestos?

Plankosaurus

Spongeplank Dalepantski
dont fuck with asbestos.

one of the key reasons i left the glamorous world of plumbing was the exposure to this stuff and just how much of it is kicking around everywhere. I've done asbestos removals before with apparently all the regs being followed but still felt entirely uncomfortable with the situation. Not just for myself either, the fact that you'll leave these fibres sitting around everywhere you worked on it and cant really do much about it is pretty frightening.

you're unlikely to develop the shorter term killer - asbestosis - from a single renovation. that takes a lot of exposure and kills you by scarring the lung tissue so they work work properly. similar deal to silicosis.

the really fun one is mesothelioma, where a few fibres can cause cancer 30+ years down the track that is almost 100% fatal once detected. yay!

I'm possibly more worried about it than i should be, but the shit gives me the willies more than spiders, snakes, and frankston combined. something about slowly dying gasping for air just doesn't sit well with me, i like breathing.
 

boyracer

Likes Dirt
Mates dad died recently of Meso. Was given 6-8 months - gone in 10 weeks. Worked on forklifts all his life. Used in heat shields, brakes etc. Those things have long service lives. Horrible.
My 1960's house has Asbestos lino under the solid wood floors. It's staying there.
Like Plank, it gives me night sweats how much of this i have been exposed to over time.
 

fatboyonabike

Captain oblivious
Mates dad died recently of Meso. Was given 6-8 months - gone in 10 weeks. Worked on forklifts all his life. Used in heat shields, brakes etc. Those things have long service lives. Horrible.
My 1960's house has Asbestos lino under the solid wood floors. It's staying there.
Like Plank, it gives me night sweats how much of this i have been exposed to over time.
I hear you bro..
My old man was a vietnam vet, he knew way back in the early 80's that exposure to agent orange and DDT was going to come knocking for him one day, died 10 years ago from mutiple myeloma!
and myself as a lecco and fridgie, I have spent most of my working life in around plant rooms and industrial plant once riddled with the stuff,
I know my lungs are not in great shape, I wheeze and whistle sometimes when I sleep, but are these the early signs of asbestos borne ailments?
It does keep me up some nights thinking about it, but what can be done...lets just wait and see
 

ausdb

Being who he is
I hear you bro..
My old man was a vietnam vet, he knew way back in the early 80's that exposure to agent orange and DDT was going to come knocking for him one day, died 10 years ago from mutiple myeloma!
and myself as a lecco and fridgie, I have spent most of my working life in around plant rooms and industrial plant once riddled with the stuff,
I know my lungs are not in great shape, I wheeze and whistle sometimes when I sleep, but are these the early signs of asbestos borne ailments?
It does keep me up some nights thinking about it, but what can be done...lets just wait and see
Don't forget sucking in phosgene from the old halide lamp leak detectors, if you started in the good days of R12, 22 and 502.

I remember one of my first weeks as an apprentice crawling around a plantroom and through the roof of a building trying to find a leak on some Carrier stand up package units (can't remember the model) but they were green with two semi hermetic compressrs in the base a front inlet and vertical discharge and remote condensers. The tradie had shown and taught me to look for the green cap on the flame but I got the really angry red and blue flame. I call him over and ask "whats this mean?" the reply "thats a big leak and that's phosgene, its bad shit try not to breathe too much of it".
 

Flow-Rider

Burner
A number of the boiler makers at a previous job had worked 20+ years making boilers that were insulated with asbertos packed into the jacket of the boiler. Asbestos came a number of them, grabbing the smokers first.
Asbestos would have been everywhere in those days in boiler shops, most buildings were made from fibro sheeting, even in the grinding wheels.
 

ausdb

Being who he is
"try not to breathe too much of it"

fuck the trade world, honestly, its still soo full of this attitude...
In all honesty and fairness OHS was a very different thing in the 80's to what it is now, and that was probably the extent of what he had been taught as well. In the trade the hole in the ozone layaer and the impact of CFC's on it didnt mean much, CFC's were still the wonder refrigerants, reasonably safe and non toxic unless you got into a situation where asphyxiation was an issue. I did my apprenticeship at a small hospital and spent some time at two of the larger main hospitals in Perth, at one them they did an in house rebuild of a 1000ton (refrigeration capacity) water chiller set. It was great fun crawling all over this thing that stood about twenty foot high, using a 3/4" drive ratlle gun to tighten all the bolts and a bucket of soapy water and 4" paint brush to leak test afterwards. It used R11 refrigerant (Trichlorofluoromethane) which is a liquid at room temperature the and the systems operated under a vacuum in operation. Anyway it is a fantastic solvent for cleaning things and there was about four half full 44 gallon drums of the stuff left at the end that was dirty and couldn't go back into the system. The other apprentices and I asked the tradies what to do with it, just tip it out on the bitumen outside it'll evaporate away was the answer!. We duly did what we were told and stains on the bitumen were there for years, thankfully fines for doing that shit were a long way off in the future.
 
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fatboyonabike

Captain oblivious
Don't forget sucking in phosgene from the old halide lamp leak detectors, if you started in the good days of R12, 22 and 502.

I remember one of my first weeks as an apprentice crawling around a plantroom and through the roof of a building trying to find a leak on some Carrier stand up package units (can't remember the model) but they were green with two semi hermetic compressrs in the base a front inlet and vertical discharge and remote condensers. The tradie had shown and taught me to look for the green cap on the flame but I got the really angry red and blue flame. I call him over and ask "whats this mean?" the reply "thats a big leak and that's phosgene, its bad shit try not to breathe too much of it".
Phosgene is basically mustard gas, nasty shit..
I live a much cleaner work life now, only play with Diesel fuels and AVTUR :confused:
 

beeb

Dr. Beebenson, PhD HA, ST, Offset (hons)
"try not to breathe too much of it"

fuck the trade world, honestly, its still soo full of this attitude...
It's a weird mix in automotive trades these days. In my (narrow) experience generally the dealerships want greatly improved (as long as it doesn't cost too, too much like completely new buildings or massive raised work platforms), but a lot of the techs are young and can't be told. You'll see 'em in the workshop using a 5" grinder without glasses/faceshield/earmuffs and if you suggest maybe they'd want to put those things on, they're like "Nah mate, she's right..." then just engage the "safety squints" as grinder dust/sparks and material debris spray them in the face. Same with the pressure washer in the wash bay. Degreasing soap and dirt flying everywhere, just squint the eyes and send it. Then there's watching them awkwardly balance a stack of tooling/component/spacers/tooling into the press and load it up with 50t with their faces 20cm away from it. "Boys - shielding screen!" - "Nah she's right, we need to see what we're doing" (I kind of get this one, but I'd rather fuck up some bloke's steering knuckle than launch it through my skull). Literally can't tell them.

It's tough when you've got young blokes that don't want to look weak in front of their mates, but it always feels like they're seconds from disaster if all the holes in the Swiss cheese align. Worst thing is I've been there, done it, and been exactly the same. Genuinely not sure what the solution is. Used to be able to get the message across a bit more 15+ years ago when you could show videos of people getting turned to goop by various machines or mishaps, but thesedays all that's banned because it's 'workplace harassment' or gives'em PTSD or some shit. I get some folk would find it distressing, but probably less so than trying it for yourself. Used to be a great/horrific image at the entry of a machine shop I used to pass through at work where a person's scalp had been ripped off, torn to ribbons and streched through a multi-head drill when their (long) hair had been caught in the machine. Wasn't a pretty sight but was a great reminder just how much power those machines surrounding you as you walked through had and I still think of it to this day when using any kind of floor-mounted machining stuff nowadays. I don't have long hair, but loose clothing or jewellery would do the same or worse.
 

rextheute

Likes Bikes and Dirt
So much yes @beeb !
As I am old , and have worked in those environments - I get it .
I feel it’s YouTube Generation “ yeah Bobbi doesn’t need any safety gear , so why should I “

i’ m on the safety committee in my workplace - and they are dead serious , whether you are at a de ask or in the tech end .
the worst offenders for most are actually young uns , always with the mobile phone whether making coffee , sending an email or welding/pressing/ destructive testing something .

it’s a lot oh , ‘ yeah sure old man ‘

opinions vary , but work safe are hard kore and like heads on sticks - metaphorically speaking of course .
 

Plankosaurus

Spongeplank Dalepantski
It's a weird mix in automotive trades these days...
Yeah, it's probably more of a boys club type deal and I've definitely been guilty of it plenty enough. Honestly surprised I can still see with all the various substances and objects I've gotten in my eyes, and how I've never managed to crush something with precariously positioned "extensions" on axle stands or dicey old jacks is beyond me.

Asbestos flies in the face of all of this though. I can get my head around blood and guts, but slowly dying from the inside like that just sounds proper unpleasant
Maybe I'm getting wiser in my old age? Weirder things have happened I guess

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk
 

Haakon

Keeps on digging
It's a weird mix in automotive trades these days. In my (narrow) experience generally the dealerships want greatly improved (as long as it doesn't cost too, too much like completely new buildings or massive raised work platforms), but a lot of the techs are young and can't be told. You'll see 'em in the workshop using a 5" grinder without glasses/faceshield/earmuffs and if you suggest maybe they'd want to put those things on, they're like "Nah mate, she's right..." then just engage the "safety squints" as grinder dust/sparks and material debris spray them in the face. Same with the pressure washer in the wash bay. Degreasing soap and dirt flying everywhere, just squint the eyes and send it. Then there's watching them awkwardly balance a stack of tooling/component/spacers/tooling into the press and load it up with 50t with their faces 20cm away from it. "Boys - shielding screen!" - "Nah she's right, we need to see what we're doing" (I kind of get this one, but I'd rather fuck up some bloke's steering knuckle than launch it through my skull). Literally can't tell them.

It's tough when you've got young blokes that don't want to look weak in front of their mates, but it always feels like they're seconds from disaster if all the holes in the Swiss cheese align. Worst thing is I've been there, done it, and been exactly the same. Genuinely not sure what the solution is. Used to be able to get the message across a bit more 15+ years ago when you could show videos of people getting turned to goop by various machines or mishaps, but thesedays all that's banned because it's 'workplace harassment' or gives'em PTSD or some shit. I get some folk would find it distressing, but probably less so than trying it for yourself. Used to be a great/horrific image at the entry of a machine shop I used to pass through at work where a person's scalp had been ripped off, torn to ribbons and streched through a multi-head drill when their (long) hair had been caught in the machine. Wasn't a pretty sight but was a great reminder just how much power those machines surrounding you as you walked through had and I still think of it to this day when using any kind of floor-mounted machining stuff nowadays. I don't have long hair, but loose clothing or jewellery would do the same or worse.
Id be just as concerned about all the chemical exposure. Brake cleaner, petrol, nasties laden used engine oil etc etc etc... It all adds up over a life time and there is an even more blasé attitude to that.

Even my DIY efforts i dread to think how many years ive taken off my life... Although probably not as many as from the year I spent working in a contaminated soil test lab breathing in all sorts of fun solvents!
 

beeb

Dr. Beebenson, PhD HA, ST, Offset (hons)
and here is me worried about a decade of daily use of Shellite, which is Naphtha, Hexane and Benzene with zero PPE years ago.
I used to wear PPE a lot of the time, but still nowhere near as much as I should've. We didn't have those good nitrile gloves until late in my aircraft career, so either my hand sweat or the chemicals we were working with would destroy the latex gloves in short order (and the latex gloves gave me dermatitis). Loved the work, but the shit we worked with was nasty (by performance necessity at least, rather than just laziness/cheapness of most other industries).
 

link1896

Mr Greenfield
I used to wear PPE a lot of the time, but still nowhere near as much as I should've. We didn't have those good nitrile gloves until late in my aircraft career, so either my hand sweat or the chemicals we were working with would destroy the latex gloves in short order (and the latex gloves gave me dermatitis). Loved the work, but the shit we worked with was nasty (by performance necessity at least, rather than just laziness/cheapness of most other industries).
Union didn't get heavily involved in safety practices?

We used the kitchen vinyl gloves before Nitrile became common and affordable, I also got dermatitis from the latex when worn for 8 hours a day
 

link1896

Mr Greenfield
The SDS for shellite makes cheery bedtime reading. I clean my bike chains and drivetrains in that shit. good thing I don't clean them very often... :oops:
Maybe time to go 100% chain waxing

Yep, I recall one time using 20L of shellite in a garden sprayer to clean equipment down, workshop was maybe 150 sq of floor space with 5 meter high roof (roller door opening allowed a shipping container on a trailer in), so maybe 750 m3.

Door to office was closed, office staff are out in the car park yelling through the open roller door they can't breath, are seeing pink elephants and have splitting headaches. WAAAAAAAAY over 20ppm for the Hexane I'm guessing. Once we were using it daily, we had zero sensitivity to it.
 

beeb

Dr. Beebenson, PhD HA, ST, Offset (hons)
Union didn't get heavily involved in safety practices?

We used the kitchen vinyl gloves before Nitrile became common and affordable, I also got dermatitis from the latex when worn for 8 hours a day
Yeah, kitchen gloves were available - but most of the component overhaul work is small and fiddly (tiny screws and bolts, shims and O-rings aplenty - and lock-wire everywhere would often pierce even thick gloves regardless. For the bigger bulkier tasks, PPE was widely used - but the loss of dexterity through any gloves while handling tiny oily or solvent covered components made many tasks nearly or literally impossible if wearing gloves (even thin ones). Once you've torn about a dozen O-rings using seal picks you're not meant to use during install, dropped the O-ring(s) about thirty times because the gloves make your fingers slip over it while trying to roll it on to a shaft - it's pretty hard not to rip the gloves off when you know you can get it done with your bare hands first try. It wasn't the airline's fault, maybe the part manufacturer's but I'm honestly not sure how else you'd design some of the stuff we worked on and keep it to a reasonable weight. FWIW, I rarely handled anything sipped in Skydrol without gloves, and MEK was actually quite rare in the mechanical side of the trade (more frequent in the sheet metal/composites sections) - that was just exaggerated in jest. Still not all roses in the mechanical workshops, we were frequently getting hands smeared in Mobil Jet-1 (turbine engine oil).
 
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