Has bike design/ innovation peaked?

Calvin27

Eats Squid
Gorilla Gravity we’re onto something with their adjustable headset and modular frame bits.
I rekon it's cool as, but for the masses it's likely to go the other way, mass produced and keep it simple and cheaper to produce. ALways going to be the high end stuff for enthusiasts, but I can't remember if my mates who have things like flip chips ever actually went to the effort of using them.
 

caad9

Likes Bikes and Dirt
I rekon it's cool as, but for the masses it's likely to go the other way, mass produced and keep it simple and cheaper to produce. Always going to be the high end stuff for enthusiasts, but I can't remember if my mates who have things like flip chips ever actually went to the effort of using them.
Personally, I feel flip chips are a complete waste of time.
I'm sure people might tinker to find a setting at the start but who is actually changing these round often?
 

leitch

Feelin' a bit rrranty
Personally, I feel flip chips are a complete waste of time.
I'm sure people might tinker to find a setting at the start but who is actually changing these round often?
Flip chips that offer a couple of distinct settings that allow you to dial the character of the bike to your taste and then forget about it can be good. Flip chips that give you a +/- 0.3 deg adjustment that you could achieve with a less worn tyre tread is silly. Complicated chips like the old Rocky ride-9 are cool in theory but 9 possible settings is way too many. As you say, no-one is changing them every ride.
 

mike14

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Flip chips that offer a couple of distinct settings that allow you to dial the character of the bike to your taste and then forget about it can be good. Flip chips that give you a +/- 0.3 deg adjustment that you could achieve with a less worn tyre tread is silly. Complicated chips like the old Rocky ride-9 are cool in theory but 9 possible settings is way too many. As you say, no-one is changing them every ride.
As someone that changes the ride 9 frequently I feel picked on! :)

IMO with the Hi/Lo style flip-chip it's all about giving you that last little bit of adjustability to get the bike closest to max comfort/performance for you as individual, they aren't designed to be flipped every other ride.
With the ride-9, there's enough adjustability that depending on where I'm riding and how I plan to ride, I can set it up to suit the conditions. This normally means one of 3 settings (super slack, slack but with higher BB clearance to avoid some Youies rocks, 'trail riding' mode). Along with being able to lengthen the chainstays it really does change how the bike rides

Spceialized (I think) did something similar where one of their bikes came with adjustable headset cups (and something else) that let you quickly change head angle etc depending on where/how you are riding.
It can be gimmicky, but it also does potentially allow you to own a single bike, probably around 140mm, and run it as both as a ' big' bike and something that's fun on the more mellow trails
 

caad9

Likes Bikes and Dirt
As someone that changes the ride 9 frequently I feel picked on! :)

IMO with the Hi/Lo style flip-chip it's all about giving you that last little bit of adjustability to get the bike closest to max comfort/performance for you as individual, they aren't designed to be flipped every other ride.
With the ride-9, there's enough adjustability that depending on where I'm riding and how I plan to ride, I can set it up to suit the conditions. This normally means one of 3 settings (super slack, slack but with higher BB clearance to avoid some Youies rocks, 'trail riding' mode). Along with being able to lengthen the chainstays it really does change how the bike rides

Spceialized (I think) did something similar where one of their bikes came with adjustable headset cups (and something else) that let you quickly change head angle etc depending on where/how you are riding.
It can be gimmicky, but it also does potentially allow you to own a single bike, probably around 140mm, and run it as both as a ' big' bike and something that's fun on the more mellow trails
When I made my comment, I knew there would be plenty here that do use them.
This place is not a true reflection of the market though, so you'd be in the 1% (Likely less) that actually do use it.
I'd wager the changes made by flipping chips would be negligible for the other 99% of 'mountain bikers'

My brother has a Trance X 29, just spent 10 days riding in Queenstown. I asked him if he flipped his chip for the park and he didn't know what that meant.
 

mike14

Likes Bikes and Dirt
When I made my comment, I knew there would be plenty here that do use them.
This place is not a true reflection of the market though, so you'd be in the 1% (Likely less) that actually do use it.
I'd wager the changes made by flipping chips would be negligible for the other 99% of 'mountain bikers'

My brother has a Trance X 29, just spent 10 days riding in Queenstown. I asked him if he flipped his chip for the park and he didn't know what that meant.
I do agree to a large extent, I've never touched the chip on my Django, or the Capra when I had it.
And I highly doubt you'll ever see a bank up of riders at the entrance to run frantically flipping chips and changing headsets. But as an 'innovation' idea one of the reasons I got the Rocky was because of the Ride-9 and adjustability, and I'd say a lot of RM owners are in the same boat (they aren't exactly the cheapest platforms going around so I'm assuming Ride-9/Ride-4 is a bit of a draw card for them).
So if you've got RM and maybe Specialised customers actively seeking these things out already, and it seems the innovation to large extent has peaked; is the innovation of simple, quick, adjustability (that actually does change things to the point where you can feel it) something that bike manufacturers can look to incorporate without needing radical changes. Especially if its coupled with the increasing costs of a bike meaning they can ' justify the increase in costs by spruiking the ' multiple bike in one' sales pitch
 

Jpez

Down on the left!
The alloy GG megatrail I have has a high low flip chip. I tried the high setting twice and didn’t like it and now it’s full time in low.
but there are plenty of folks on the GG forums running it in high and loving it. Great to have that option. Especially for different terrain.
Also being able to make it either a 140mm or a 165mm travel bike with the change over of a same E2E shock but different stroke is great. tried that too but much prefer the big travel. Plenty running it in both configurations but as mentioned earlier those are forum members so not truly indicative of the riding population.
In theory I like the idea of the reach adjust on the newer GG bikes but the way it looks when it’s in the short cup is horrible. Can’t look at one without cringing but again lotsa people love it and use it so good for them.
But at the end of the day I’m a set and forget guy so I couldn’t care less if it comes with flip chips and adjustment.
 

Asininedrivel

caviar connoisseur
In theory I like the idea of the reach adjust on the newer GG bikes but the way it looks when it’s in the short cup is horrible. Can’t look at one without cringing but again lotsa people love it and use it so good for them.
With you on that one, looks absolutely hideous.

Only bike I've ever had with a flip chip had been dumped into its lowest setting by the previous owner and never in the 5 years I had it did I have any curiosity to see what it'd be like in its higher position. But a mate has a current Enduro and frequently flips between settings depending on where he's riding and rates it.
 

leitch

Feelin' a bit rrranty
As someone that changes the ride 9 frequently I feel picked on! :)
...
This normally means one of 3 settings (super slack, slack but with higher BB clearance to avoid some Youies rocks, 'trail riding' mode).
Don't feel picked on, but you did prove my point :) I had an Instinct and liked the Ride9, and I would change it semi-regularly (neutral with air shock and light tyres etc for trail duty, slack with coil shock and big tyres for enduro racing/shuttles), but it was overly complicated and the extra parts required for the nested eccentric chips that give it the 9 settings would regularly get creaky from dust ingress which was annoying when, as you say, you really only wanted 2-3 options anyway (slack/neutral/steep-ish).
 

mike14

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Don't feel picked on, but you did prove my point :) I had an Instinct and liked the Ride9, and I would change it semi-regularly (neutral with air shock and light tyres etc for trail duty, slack with coil shock and big tyres for enduro racing/shuttles), but it was overly complicated and the extra parts required for the nested eccentric chips that give it the 9 settings would regularly get creaky from dust ingress which was annoying when, as you say, you really only wanted 2-3 options anyway (slack/neutral/steep-ish).
I kind of think we agree then. A simplified adjustment option through innovation would potentially make sense. If we've peaked for geometry design, adjustable geometry is logical next step regardless of whether it's something people want (like super-boost)
 

shiny

Go-go-gadget-wrist-thingy
No.

Current bicycle transmissions suck from a durability and reliability POV.
With more manufacturers using the SRAM UDH lots of spy shots of direct mount SRAM mechs popping up. It’s a shame Shimano’s direct mount didn’t catch on. Not sure if that’s an improvement or just another standard.

There doesn’t seem to be the push towards gearboxes but I find current drivetrains to be pretty good. Still recall years ago and the SRAM X9 mechs blowing up regularly on my bike.
 

Tubbsy

Packin' a small bird
Staff member
A simplified adjustment option through innovation would potentially make sense. If we've peaked for geometry design, adjustable geometry is logical next step regardless of whether it's something people want (like super-boost)
Did anyone on here have a Canyon with shapeshifter and think it was any good?
 

Asininedrivel

caviar connoisseur
Did anyone on here have a Canyon with shapeshifter and think it was any good?
Mate had a first gen one on his Strive and loved it - used it all the time. Was a finnicky thing to get to switch between positions though, and apparently lots of them blew up.
 

mike14

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Did anyone on here have a Canyon with shapeshifter and think it was any good?
yeah me :)
I was one of the lucky ones with the 2016 version, had no issues at all and basically engaged it before all climbing/descending (hmm, maybe I just really like fiddly bits on my bikes?). By all accounts the latest incarnation is quite good as well
Was very useful in Rotorua when going between the blue and black trails
 

The Duckmeister

Has a juicy midrange
With more manufacturers using the SRAM UDH lots of spy shots of direct mount SRAM mechs popping up. It’s a shame Shimano’s direct mount didn’t catch on. Not sure if that’s an improvement or just another standard.
Not sure what the SRAM UDH is like, but one of the problems with the Shimano direct-mount was that the shape of the hanger head where it mounts to the frame is still dictated by the frame manufacturers. And because they can't agree on a standard interface shape, there'd be another 200 hangers to have to filter through to find the correct replacement.

Also, because the Shimano-type direct-mount is specifically designed to eliminate the B-link on Shadow derailleurs, it can't fit any other derailleurs because it fucks up the position relative to the cassette. Other component manufacturers would have to drastically redesign their derailleurs to fit it.
 

shiny

Go-go-gadget-wrist-thingy
Not sure what the SRAM UDH is like, but one of the problems with the Shimano direct-mount was that the shape of the hanger head where it mounts to the frame is still dictated by the frame manufacturers. And because they can't agree on a standard interface shape, there'd be another 200 hangers to have to filter through to find the correct replacement.

Also, because the Shimano-type direct-mount is specifically designed to eliminate the B-link on Shadow derailleurs, it can't fit any other derailleurs because it fucks up the position relative to the cassette. Other component manufacturers would have to drastically redesign their derailleurs to fit it.
That makes sense. Thanks @The Duckmeister

UDH is catching on and works with any rear mech.

 
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