Fox DHX RC4 vs Fox Van R

Nautonier

Eats Squid
I'm currently riding a DH bike with a 2011 Fox Van R and am thinking about upgrading to a an RC4. I had an RC4 (Tekin tuned) on my last bike and I liked it a lot (apart from the 2010 model exploding and having to be replaced), but am wondering if I am a good enough rider to notice the difference between the two. Because I haven't ridden my latest bike (demo) with an RC4, I don't really know how much better it would feel, or, if I would notice the differences. Has anyone ridden the 2 shocks on the same bike? Apart from the lack of adjustment, will the Van R have a similar feel on the trail?
 

yakkity yak

Likes Dirt
firstly you don't have to be good enough to have an RC4! :)
and yeh u probrably will feel i abit of a difference especially after you fiddle around with it so it is good for you.

In my old bike i had some rock shocks shock which i can't remember the name of and when i swithched to the rc4 it felt so much more plush and alive.
i rekon definatly go for the rc4 you'll find it more fun :)
 

Nautonier

Eats Squid
firstly you don't have to be good enough to have an RC4! :)
and yeh u probrably will feel i abit of a difference especially after you fiddle around with it so it is good for you.

In my old bike i had some rock shocks shock which i can't remember the name of and when i swithched to the rc4 it felt so much more plush and alive.
i rekon definatly go for the rc4 you'll find it more fun :)
Yeah I think you might be right. On my last bike I started with a Rockshox Vivid and absolutely hated it which was why I upgraded to an RC4. The difference was noticeable, especially after I had it replaced with the 2011 model which Ken at Tekin tuned for me. If the difference between a Fox Van and and RC4 is the same as going from a Vivid to an RC4 I will probably do it.

Is a 2011 Fox Van the same as an earlier model DHX4?
 

Spotty

Likes Dirt
Nah, the Van series has always been there oil only shock, whereas the dhx have the boost valve.

Still the van R/RC shocks are pretty underated imo, nice and simple but plush.
 

driftking

Wheel size expert
Both shocks are capable but the Rc4 is just a more tunable and a racer's shock by that I mean racers want all those little edges, its got those updates from the van and those extra adjustments that make it that much (whether a lot or a little) better.
I have also heard a bit about vans blowing up more than rc4 so reliability might be a issue? not sure. I didn't even ride my van on my bike I switched it out for a rc4 at purchase and damn is the rc4 nice. I like having as much control over the shock as possible it just helps with set up and and getting the shock feeling perfect.

Checking out the website the Rc4 has HSC, bottom out control and bottom out force adjust

HSC is obviously a massive benefit on a bike, When we ride LSC control things like body movement, dives and slow compression, most things like rock gardens and most things we hit on a dh trail tend to activate the HSC in the shock so it is a very valuable tuning adjustment.

BOC - basically this just adjust the progressiveness of the suspension towards the end, this is obviously very helpful, if you are happy with how the bike feels through the travel but need a little more at the end you can change this via BOC.

BOF - this is basically the air pressure in the chamber and does effect the whole shocks feeling, it is best used or thought as a mid stroke support and ending stroke support.


Take the following into consideration.

You have a VAN with LSC rebound and spring rate. If you find you are bottoming out the shock you need to up the spring rate, this might mean your beginning stroke is harsh and you get little sag, HSC on this shock is controlled internally by shim stacks so you can alter HSC but it requires some internal shock configuration . basically you cannot isolate any adjustments.

You have a RC4 that has the right spring rate and you have adjusted your LSC and rebound
Now you find the shock feels like it it blowing through its travel on hits so you adjust your HSC, this solves the problem.
Now you are riding and you find that the bike is blowing through its travel too much again so you decide to up your HSC so it uses less travel, this then makes the bike feel harsh on square edge hits. Instead you turn the HSC back down to how you had it as this is where you want it and instead you add some pressure to the chamber to give more support.
You now ride the bike and this time the shock is using less travel again but the bike also does not feel harsh on square edge or immediate hits. This is the advantage of pressure adjust
Now you further find now big drops or harsh landings are causing the bike to bottom out too often but the bike feels perfect else where so changing HSC or pressure will make the end feel better but make the rest of the suspension feel poor, instead of changing to more HSC or more pressure you can add some BOC to make the ending stroke more progressive. This means you now can leave your HSC and pressure in its perfect position and independently adjust that every end of the travel.
You now have a bike that uses its travel brilliantly but does it in a controlled smooth manner.

As you can see if you don't have some adjustments you need to try and control them via other methods which not only mess with how the bike feels in other areas but they don't really focus on the specific thing you are trying to change.
An Rc4 lets you isolate the forces and sections of the shock so you can adjust them correctly without affecting the other areas beyond what is necessary, therefore you can really tweak the bike and get it performing how you want.
 
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Nautonier

Eats Squid
As you can see if you don't have some adjustments you need to try and control them via other methods which not only mess with how the bike feels in other areas but they don't really focus on the specific thing you are trying to change.
An Rc4 lets you isolate the forces and sections of the shock so you can adjust them correctly without affecting the other areas beyond what is necessary, therefore you can really tweak the bike and get it performing how you want.
Thanks DK for your comprehensive break-down. I totally see what you're saying re having to compromise on adjustments with a shock that is a basically a one-liner. So for I like the feel of the Van, but I'm only just getting back into DH after several months off due to injury and definitely haven't put it through the range of potential trail obstacles that I used to inflict on the RC4 on my last bike. While I've pretty much given up on racing, I still want to ride to my full (somewhat limited potential) and am now thinking that the Van might hold me back. I still intend to do some reasonable size jumps and drops and really don't want a shock that is going to give me harsh bottom-out for the price of plush-ness on smaller hits. I've hit the Van on 5-6ft drops to flat and I don't think it has bottomed out, but I'm heading to Whistler this year and really want to have my bike set up as best it can be before I go. So it's a juggling act involving Canada expenses and blinging up my bike...

The other thing to consider is that I'm packin Boxxer RCs on the front and while they have the correct spring rate and feel really plush, they are probably limiting me in exactly the same way as the Van on the back (ie lack of HSC/LSC/bottom-out adjustment). WCs and an RC4 is getting pretty pricey...
 

driftking

Wheel size expert
Thanks DK for your comprehensive break-down. I totally see what you're saying re having to compromise on adjustments with a shock that is a basically a one-liner. So for I like the feel of the Van, but I'm only just getting back into DH after several months off due to injury and definitely haven't put it through the range of potential trail obstacles that I used to inflict on the RC4 on my last bike. While I've pretty much given up on racing, I still want to ride to my full (somewhat limited potential) and am now thinking that the Van might hold me back. I still intend to do some reasonable size jumps and drops and really don't want a shock that is going to give me harsh bottom-out for the price of plush-ness on smaller hits. I've hit the Van on 5-6ft drops to flat and I don't think it has bottomed out, but I'm heading to Whistler this year and really want to have my bike set up as best it can be before I go. So it's a juggling act involving Canada expenses and blinging up my bike...

The other thing to consider is that I'm packin Boxxer RCs on the front and while they have the correct spring rate and feel really plush, they are probably limiting me in exactly the same way as the Van on the back (ie lack of HSC/LSC/bottom-out adjustment). WCs and an RC4 is getting pretty pricey...
Yeah even if you are just riding for the fun and no longer racing the Rc4 will more than likely enhance your enjoyment, obviously a more complex shock does mean more time to get it set up but as I explained the adjustments really let you set the shock up the best it can and obviously means your ride is going to be exactly how you want it with little to no draw backs, really lets you adjust those things you dont like without negatively affecting the things you do like. With a more complex shock it is still a juggling act obviously but once you get your head around the settings and get a good base setting down its easy to tweek (you can get a good start guide if you shoot a email to ken at tekin, he helped me out)

Any reason for wc over teams?
Wc will be more progressive and air forks tend to be a little less plush on the very initial inch or so.
The teams have all the same adjustments obviously except air pressure so spring rate is done via the spring, springs are a more linear feeling. It has Bottom out too so you can make the last bit of travel more progressive. I personally took the BOC out of my fork and the fork is brilliant. just using my HSC LSC rebounds and spring rate to set the fork and it is fairly perfect right now.
 
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Nautonier

Eats Squid
Any reason for wc over teams?
Wc will be more progressive and air forks tend to be a little less plush on the very initial inch or so.
The teams have all the same adjustments obviously except air pressure so spring rate is done via the spring, springs are a more linear feeling. It has Bottom out too so you can make the last bit of travel more progressive. I personally took the BOC out of my fork and the fork is brilliant. just using my HSC LSC rebounds and spring rate to set the fork and it is fairly perfect right now.
On my last bike I had Teams and really liked them. The crash that put me out of action for 7 months was also the incident that snapped my perfectly tuned Teams, so after replacing the (also snapped frame) and other bits and pieces could only afford second hand RCs, which I intended to install the Team internals into. After installing only the drop-stop bumper (as I was bottoming them out with the yellow spring) I noticed that the RCs were about 300g lighter than the Teams and decided to try them for a while. To be honest, I really didn't notice a difference... If I was to upgrade my forks now, I would opt for WCs purely because they weight about the same as RCs and offer a lot more adjustment. Teams are great, but IMO excessively heavy.
 

driftking

Wheel size expert
On my last bike I had Teams and really liked them. The crash that put me out of action for 7 months was also the incident that snapped my perfectly tuned Teams, so after replacing the (also snapped frame) and other bits and pieces could only afford second hand RCs, which I intended to install the Team internals into. After installing only the drop-stop bumper (as I was bottoming them out with the yellow spring) I noticed that the RCs were about 300g lighter than the Teams and decided to try them for a while. To be honest, I really didn't notice a difference... If I was to upgrade my forks now, I would opt for WCs purely because they weight about the same as RCs and offer a lot more adjustment. Teams are great, but IMO excessively heavy.
fair point.
I am surprised you don't notice a change between teams and RC, I can feel every click of adjustment with my teams. Were they a 2010 model or 2011? the 2011 improved a lot which might be why I notice a change in my teams. Weight wise it is a fair call 300 grams is a significant saving from the forks, more so that it is moving weight affecting your forks compression and rebounding.

I am disappointing that rockshox don't have a range of ti springs or fox for that matter they still only produce medium ti springs from what I gather. Given today's little edges we look for and having rear springs it definitely surprises me that there is no market for ti fork springs. Personally id buy one.

Hopefully fox put their hybrid fork into production it is basically the spring 40 but it also has a air adjustment chamber so you can tweak the spring rate even more. It is quite a nice addition, I still wonder if fox will ever move into full air sprung 40 but they are having great success with the current range that it is hard to justify a change if it doesn't offer any additional benefit for them.
 

udi

swiss cheese
If money is at all a concern, I'd just ride the Van R.

Riding in the Alps I found a lot of guys running them as they came stock in demos (like yours) and I didn't see any issues or hear any complaints. As long as the shock is new / in good shape and doesn't have any problems, I doubt you're going to find yourself wanting more adjustability unless you're anal about that sort of thing. Get the spring rate / sag correct, set the rebound to taste, and off you go.

If you're heading to whistler you can probably find better things to spend $xxx on than a new shock if the current one is working fine. Perhaps in the long term you might appreciate the volume adjustment and boost valve on the RC4 as the demo isn't a particularly progressive frame, however the highend frame comes with a CCDB which is even more linear than the Van R (ignoring the extra adjustments) and people seem happy enough on those.
 
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