First XACD Ti frame

Litenbror

Litenbror

Eats Squid
So thought I would start a new thread for a new build. I have been in contact with XACD to build another Ti hardtail based of my current Waltly. I got the idea in my head after all the discussions on here about Ti manufacturers and the options/quality available. It looks like XACD can do double butted tubes in the front triangle which may reduce weight but I am most interested in how it will affect the ride quality. There won't be any major geometry changes most of the changes will be tubing sizes/butting and I'm going to run the cables/brake hose differently. Price looks to be about $200USD more for double butted tubes which seems pretty reasonable considering the extra complexity it brings to the build. Finally part is timing, the estimate I was given was 3 months to delivery which is pretty good in a COVID world.
 
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beeb

beeb

Dr. Beebenson, PhD HA, ST, Offset (hons)
Litenbror said:
So thought I would start a new thread for a new build. I have been in contact with XACD to build another Ti hardtail based of my current Waltly. I got the idea in my head after all the discussions on here about Ti manufacturers and the options/quality available. It looks like XACD can do double butted tubes in the front triangle which may reduce weight but I am most interested in how it will affect the ride quality. There won't be any major geometry changes most of the changes will be tubing sizes/butting and I'm going to run the cables/brake hose differently. Price looks to be about $200USD more for double butted tubes which seems pretty reasonable considering the extra complexity it brings to the build. Finally part is timing, the estimate i.was given was 3 months to delivery which is pretty good in a COVID world.
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Cool stuff!

Out of interest - What difference(s) in feel are you hoping to achieve?

Just be aware, XCAD are pretty notorious for being “interesting” to deal with. I get the impression ETAs might be a bit more variable, like a Marino or similar… Hopefully smooth sailing for you though.
 
Litenbror

Litenbror

Eats Squid
beeb said:
Cool stuff!

Out of interest - What difference(s) in feel are you hoping to achieve?

Just be aware, XCAD are pretty notorious for being “interesting” to deal with. I get the impression ETAs might be a bit more variable, like a Marino or similar… Hopefully smooth sailing for you though.
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Yeah I have heard and read the same but so far they have been responsive so will see how it goes. Timing I'm not sure about, if it takes longer that's alright, they were pretty up front with the 3 months so let's see how they go once I finalise the design.

With regard to the ride I'm interested to see what tube options I have with double butting and whether there is a bit more spring while keeping the stiffness of large diameter tubes. I have also read that their designer is very good at using different tube sizes throughout the frame to give particular ride qualities. Waltly didn't really offer much in the way of options for the tube size and never suggested different sizes for different characteristics.
 
Ash HT

Ash HT

Likes Bikes
I assume you got this from my Ti manufacturers posts. If so glad I could help.

Maybe I should let the cat out of the bag...... I'm not bagging Waltly but the quality of XACD is far superior.

However, not as easy to deal with, price will be more and your frame will not include as much.

The lead time will be closer to 6 - 9 months than the 3 or 4 you are told.

Its way better if you have your own drawings and FEA.

Tell them what you want before quoting, seat clamp, tube thickness, axle, logos etc because the frame will more than likely be a basic price. I think there axle is like $50 US extra.

Arrange your own shipping unless they quote you a fixed price and you are happy with that.

If you deal with Porter you will need to put up with the grumpy attitude.
 
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Litenbror

Litenbror

Eats Squid
Ash HT said:
I assume you got this from my Ti manufacturers posts. If so glad I could help.

Maybe I should let the cat out of the bag...... I'm not bagging Waltly but the quality of XACD is far superior.

However, not as easy to deal with, price will be more and your frame will not include as much.

The lead time will be closer to 6 - 9 months than the 3 or 4 you are told.

Its way better if you have your own drawings and FEA.

Tell them what you want before quoting, seat clamp, tube thickness, axle, logos etc because the frame will more than likely be a basic price. I think there axle is like $50 US extra.

Arrange your own shipping unless they quote you a fixed price and you are happy with that.

If you deal with Porter you will need to put up with the grumpy attitude.
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Thanks @Ash HT yes I got the initial info on XACD from your post then did a bit of digging to fill in the picture. Most of the info available is on their road bikes but a lot of the experience etc is applicable to mtbs.

Good to know about the delivery time I thought 3 months was good and I expect it to be longer, it's nice to have a ballpark figure now.

With regards to price and shipping, I provided them my design drawing of my current hardtail and the request for double butted tubing in the front triangle (they said that was all they could do) and they quoted from that including shipping, it was about $400usd higher than the Waltly including shipping. The shipping was airfreight so that's the best at the moment. Porter has since contacted me over the weekend and we have negotiated the price down a bit. I found they were very responsive over WhatsApp.

Really interested to see both frames side by side because if the quality is that much better than the Waltly then it will be something else. Guess if you have only drunk VB/EB then you don't know what your missing with the good stuff till you try it.
 
Ash HT

Ash HT

Likes Bikes
Litenbror said:
Thanks @Ash HT yes I got the initial info on XACD from your post then did a bit of digging to fill in the picture. Most of the info available is on their road bikes but a lot of the experience etc is applicable to mtbs.

Good to know about the delivery time I thought 3 months was good and I expect it to be longer, it's nice to have a ballpark figure now.

With regards to price and shipping, I provided them my design drawing of my current hardtail and the request for double butted tubing in the front triangle (they said that was all they could do) and they quoted from that including shipping, it was about $400usd higher than the Waltly including shipping. The shipping was airfreight so that's the best at the moment. Porter has since contacted me over the weekend and we have negotiated the price down a bit. I found they were very responsive over WhatsApp.

Really interested to see both frames side by side because if the quality is that much better than the Waltly then it will be something else. Guess if you have only drunk VB/EB then you don't know what your missing with the good stuff till you try it.
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You possibly wont see a lot of difference when you look side by side, the tolerances are different.
 
S

SummitFever

Eats Squid
The Reverend said:
...Wishing for longer chainstays too...
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Interesting. I've not tried super short chainstays on a 29er but I really prefer 435 to 450 on a large size frame. I found the 15mm shorter chainstays makes it so much easier to steer the rear end with my feet. I couldn't tell the difference until I spent some time riding very slippery conditions and then I was sold on the shorter chainstays. Also, I think the steeper seat angles and longer front centers allow shorter chainstays without any of the drawbacks
 
K

komdotkom

Likes Bikes and Dirt
SummitFever said:
Interesting. I've not tried super short chainstays on a 29er but I really prefer 435 to 450 on a large size frame. I found the 15mm shorter chainstays makes it so much easier to steer the rear end with my feet. I couldn't tell the difference until I spent some time riding very slippery conditions and then I was sold on the shorter chainstays. Also, I think the steeper seat angles and longer front centers allow shorter chainstays without any of the drawbacks
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Totally agree, I love the short chain stays when combined with a long reach. I haven't ridden a long CS hard tail for a very long time so can't comment, but I don't find myself wishing for more stability. It makes it so easy to get the front up too which is a huge plus.
Let me know where to send the money once the group buy is sorted, I'll have mine in Large not the XXL which everyone else wants.
 
Litenbror

Litenbror

Eats Squid
SummitFever said:
Interesting. I've not tried super short chainstays on a 29er but I really prefer 435 to 450 on a large size frame. I found the 15mm shorter chainstays makes it so much easier to steer the rear end with my feet. I couldn't tell the difference until I spent some time riding very slippery conditions and then I was sold on the shorter chainstays. Also, I think the steeper seat angles and longer front centers allow shorter chainstays without any of the drawbacks
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This is actually one of my favourite things about the sliding dropouts. Even if your not running single speed there is up to 20mm of horizontal adjustment you can make to your chain stays to find what feels best.
 
The Reverend

The Reverend

Likes Bikes and Dirt
SummitFever said:
Interesting. I've not tried super short chainstays on a 29er but I really prefer 435 to 450 on a large size frame. I found the 15mm shorter chainstays makes it so much easier to steer the rear end with my feet. I couldn't tell the difference until I spent some time riding very slippery conditions and then I was sold on the shorter chainstays. Also, I think the steeper seat angles and longer front centers allow shorter chainstays without any of the drawbacks
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Definitely prefer a longer rear on my FS bikes, and to be open with you, every single time I ride the Paradox it's smiles central. I just have this thing about balance. The HT might be an exception on this given its very nature.

Either way, with sliding drop outs it's good to have the option.
 
Litenbror

Litenbror

Eats Squid
Deposit paid so it's design time. I'm basing it off the Waltly so no major geo changes as it's pretty good.

My current question is cable routing and the different options. I'm leaning towards all three cables on the top of the down tube using bolt on cable guides. This keeps the cables easy to get to when changing things around and means nothing internal which is my preference. It's not as clean as having the brake and shifter under the top tube which is what I have currently but you can't have the dropper cable up there it has to be on the down tube or internal.

Option three is related to my earlier post in the stupid questions thread where I get a wireless dropper and keep the rest under the top tube.

I could always get four bottle bosses on the down tube and three on the top tube then I can try both and see but I have heard that extra bottle bosses can cause stress risers in the tubes.

Happy to hear any opinions.
 
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Tubbsy

Tubbsy

Packin' a small bird
Staff member
The Paradox runs all three down the downtube which is convenient as you say, but it does look a little untidy around the bottle cage if you use one.

Makes me think a bottle cage with an integrated cable channel could be a neat idea.
 
Litenbror

Litenbror

Eats Squid
So I have been back and forth with Porter this week putting together the design. They are very efficient like Waltly, you send in your changes and they have them back within the day. I sent this one this morning and it came back this afternoon.

It's getting very close to finished. I have shortened the seat post to take a 170mm dropper and changes the braze ons for bottle mounts but the rest is quite similar to the current HT it just fixes a few little niggles I have with this one.

Happy for any thoughts or things to consider, and yes @Tubbsy it takes a lot of its geo from the Paradox ;)

381654
 
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