link1896
Mr Greenfield
Lynskey FS bikes due early 2021.
First Waltly frame
- Thread starter Litenbror
- Start date
Lynskey FS bikes due early 2021.
WileECoyote
Squid
Cool to see it dirtied up a bit!
Could you share some more details on the ride? The same geo in aluminum (Banshee Paradox) got some great reviews on hardtail party. Eager to hear how it translates in titanium.
FWIW I'm getting pretty close to pulling the trigger on something like this myself. I just pretzled a front wheel at the You Yangs, and I think I'd rather get something new than throw money at a dated XC bike that works fine on smooth singletrack but not much else.
Could you share some more details on the ride? The same geo in aluminum (Banshee Paradox) got some great reviews on hardtail party. Eager to hear how it translates in titanium.
FWIW I'm getting pretty close to pulling the trigger on something like this myself. I just pretzled a front wheel at the You Yangs, and I think I'd rather get something new than throw money at a dated XC bike that works fine on smooth singletrack but not much else.
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SummitFever
Eats Squid
I think frame materials like Ti (and CrMO) have their place for custom hard tails where their unique properties and relative ease of manufacture makes sense. Once you go FS, the ride qualities are now coming from the suspension kinematics and so what the frame is made of is much less relevant, so alu for weight, ease of manipulation and manufacture comes out on top.
What often seems to be the case when a Ti FS bike turns up, is that the wow factor of Ti trumps any other effort at innovation and a Ti FS with a poorly designed rear suspension is the result.
link1896
Mr Greenfield
The emperors new clothes man.......you will like or
Seriously now. When the time comes I’ll find something I like to copy.
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Litenbror
Eats Squid
It's too early for to really give a good run down on how it rides, I need to set it up properly and get more time on it first.
Initial impressions are it rides really well, very responsive and light. It doesn't seem to dampen the trail the same way the Honzo did but some of that is probably cockpit and seat setup.
I haven't ridden the paradox but from the reviews I have read and watched I think this is probably equal to it once I have the fork and cockpit setup.
But that's just initial impressions from 3 rides, it took me ages to really dial in the Honzo that's why I'm hesitant to comment too early.
beeb
Dr. Beebenson, PhD HA, ST, Offset (hons)
Tell me about it, I have just started the ball rolling again. I think I might need some Ti-anonymous group sessions in future!
Litenbror
Eats Squid
beeb
Dr. Beebenson, PhD HA, ST, Offset (hons)
Nothing too new, just a rework of my first frame with a dropped top tube (brake levers hit on my current one, 20mm longer chainstays, fractionally longer and steeper at the front - something like 5mm longer, and wait for it...
...0.2deg steeper HA. The front end was almost perfect basically, just want it a fraction steeper so it's a bit sharper on change of direction, and a touch longer so I can run a stem a couple of mm shorter and still have basically the same front centre (BB to front hub) measurement. Currently the geo I chose means the back end is a bit sketchy at speed, and it also makes it a little hard to find a good balance point in flatter/loose conditions. I intended that frame to be more playful and "poppy" with a short back end - so it's as intended, but I'm starting to get it up to speeds where it's feeling a little too on-edge, so am just experimenting with a more balanced/high-speed focussed geo. Also going to go with a 29er rear on this one again for a bit more bump-absorbtion.
Pure OCD playtime basically.
I had wanted to do one with a Pinion gearbox and belt drive, but fuuuuuck - $3K for the driveline plus an SS hub was pushing the friendship a bit too much. It would be the ultimate, but too many dollars right now and possibly loose some of that light and playful feel I love in a hardtail anyway I suspect (even though the handling would be sublime).
Litenbror
Eats Squid
Sounds like a lot of fun I can't wait to see it. I do find the short rear end to be a bit of a handful on steeper rocky sections. It's so light without a cassette etc that it pings around. The Honzo was heavy enough that this wasn't a problem, this one I'm having to ride a bit different and let the rear end do its own thing.Nothing too new, just a rework of my first frame with a dropped top tube (brake levers hit on my current one, 20mm longer chainstays, fractionally longer and steeper at the front - something like 5mm longer, and wait for it...
...0.2deg steeper HA. The front end was almost perfect basically, just want it a fraction steeper so it's a bit sharper on change of direction, and a touch longer so I can run a stem a couple of mm shorter and still have basically the same front centre (BB to front hub) measurement. Currently the geo I chose means the back end is a bit sketchy at speed, and it also makes it a little hard to find a good balance point in flatter/loose conditions. I intended that frame to be more playful and "poppy" with a short back end - so it's as intended, but I'm starting to get it up to speeds where it's feeling a little too on-edge, so am just experimenting with a more balanced/high-speed focussed geo. Also going to go with a 29er rear on this one again for a bit more bump-absorbtion.
Pure OCD playtime basically.
I had wanted to do one with a Pinion gearbox and belt drive, but fuuuuuck - $3K for the driveline plus an SS hub was pushing the friendship a bit too much. It would be the ultimate, but too many dollars right now and possibly loose some of that light and playful feel I love in a hardtail anyway I suspect (even though the handling would be sublime).
Litenbror
Eats Squid
So chasing se help from the Ti brains trust especially you @beeb since your on to number 3.
I'm getting quite a bit of arm pump during steep descents which I didn't get on the Honzo. I've changed the bar height up and down to see if that helps but no change. To make sure I wasn't remembering the Honzo with rose coloured glasses I did some runs on the Waltly yesterday then built up the Honzo last night and did the same runs again this morning, there was a noticeable difference in arm pump.
I'm thinking the 19mm seat stays are to stiff and I might need to go down to 16mm, I'm only 80kg so they should be strong enough but if anyone has any other thoughts it would be good to hear them.
I'm getting quite a bit of arm pump during steep descents which I didn't get on the Honzo. I've changed the bar height up and down to see if that helps but no change. To make sure I wasn't remembering the Honzo with rose coloured glasses I did some runs on the Waltly yesterday then built up the Honzo last night and did the same runs again this morning, there was a noticeable difference in arm pump.
I'm thinking the 19mm seat stays are to stiff and I might need to go down to 16mm, I'm only 80kg so they should be strong enough but if anyone has any other thoughts it would be good to hear them.
SummitFever
Eats Squid
Interesting. So you're swapping the fork between the Honzo and Walty?
Hard to imagine that the seat stays would influence arm pump much. Maybe the Walty is flexier and you're having to do more work at the bars to keep it pointed where you want? A vague front end can give you arm pump on the descents because you are inadvertently gripping the bars tighter. If whole setup were stiffer then you'd expect to get aching hands rather than arm pump.
Hard to imagine that the seat stays would influence arm pump much. Maybe the Walty is flexier and you're having to do more work at the bars to keep it pointed where you want? A vague front end can give you arm pump on the descents because you are inadvertently gripping the bars tighter. If whole setup were stiffer then you'd expect to get aching hands rather than arm pump.
Litenbror
Eats Squid
Thanks @SummitFever this is why I put the question up because I really don't know what's happening, I was thinking the Honzo was less stiff so I was getting less feedback. It does feel like I'm working harder to keep the Waltly going in the right direction, I thought that was the frame being so much lighter but it could be flexing (I'm not great at feeling the subtleties). So the only solution would be get used to the flexing and relax my grip, it does feel like I'm on the brakes more and less in control.
beeb
Dr. Beebenson, PhD HA, ST, Offset (hons)
I'm (at a guess) around 92-95kg in riding kit, and also have 19mm seat stays on my bike. I don't find my frame overly stiff, but @wkkie did mention it was stiffer than his steel Marino when he had a brief roll on the Waltly. The second frame I had built was too stiff for my tastes, but I also asked for increased wall thickness on the down-tube and a larger diameter top tube, so that would likely have had more of an influence on frame stiffness than seat stay diameter or anything else.
Couple of questions to satisfy my curiosity - is your Waltly the same geo as the Kona? And does the Honzo also have a low top tube and rear sliders?
Couple of questions to satisfy my curiosity - is your Waltly the same geo as the Kona? And does the Honzo also have a low top tube and rear sliders?
Litenbror
Eats Squid
The Waltly is very similar geo to the Honzo, with the top tube being about 40mm lower. The Honzo and Waltly both have sliding drop outs.
I'm wondering if I should have gone with gussets on the top tube to the head tube and seat tube. The Honzo has them and could explain why there might be less deflection on down hill sections.
Might need to borrow your expertise @SummitFever for a few runs at Majura to see what you can feel.
beeb
Dr. Beebenson, PhD HA, ST, Offset (hons)
Hmm. So the chainstays and seat stays are around the same length then. I was wondering if the lower top-tube might send to forces from the seat stays towards the headtube a little more directly, but that's purely speculation...
I did notice when I setup the Waltly (V1) up single speed the back end was a lot more lively over bumps than when it was geared, so maybe the reduced weight is playing a part it making it feel like it kicks around more and has you hanging on a bit tighter.
I don't suffer with arm pump myself, so I'm not really familiar with what conditions may exacerbate it tbh, so it's hard to judge other than just guessing, but for what it's worth I got Waltly V2 built because I thought that V1 was too flexy, when I got V2 (very similar geometry) I realised I was wrong and the slight flexiness with my V1 was strongly my preference (to the point where I sold V2). V2 wasn't that bad, but the more compliant V1 tracked better over bumps.
I did notice when I setup the Waltly (V1) up single speed the back end was a lot more lively over bumps than when it was geared, so maybe the reduced weight is playing a part it making it feel like it kicks around more and has you hanging on a bit tighter.
I don't suffer with arm pump myself, so I'm not really familiar with what conditions may exacerbate it tbh, so it's hard to judge other than just guessing, but for what it's worth I got Waltly V2 built because I thought that V1 was too flexy, when I got V2 (very similar geometry) I realised I was wrong and the slight flexiness with my V1 was strongly my preference (to the point where I sold V2). V2 wasn't that bad, but the more compliant V1 tracked better over bumps.
Litenbror
Eats Squid
It's not bad, on the climbs it's amazing and flowing down hill is awesome it's just when you get to real rough, rocky chunky stuff (debatable if you should be there on a hardtail at all) that it gets a bit loose. Unfortunately for me I really like rough, rocky, chunky stuff so might need some gussets to stiffen things up. Need to find a local Ti welder, or order V2 from Waltly.Bugger...