Electronic shifting - any 1x drivetrain

[Nambra]

Clicked on an ad the other day and came across this:

https://www.archercomponents.com

Aftermarket e-shifting for mtb 1x drivetrain. Can't say I'd ever be tempted and the photo showing how the actuator mounts on the rear triangle looks problematic - more weight at rear wheel, prone to slipping perhaps?

Is there a market for this sort of thing or is it another case of someone coming up with a solution for a problem that doesn't exist?

 

[Mr Crudley]

Sure looks like a sensible way to make an electronic shifter that works with any brand.

I'd guess the if your weren't happy with your current shifting performance then the same problems would be there only a wifi electric finger does it for you.

Good that there are still folks out there willing to give ideas like this a try.

An internal gearbox that could also charge a general purpose battery pack when you pedal would be handy. Use it to power electronic shifters, lights, bike computers, whatever, etc.

Something that bolts on as an afterthought or interworks with existing stuff usually looks more limited to me but sure is more practical to implement.

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[Nambra]

Good that there are still folks out there willing to give ideas like this a try.

I guess that's the important thing - people challenging the status quo, and the big 'S's can only be good for us punters.

I do like the notion of being able to tune every step increment on that Archer e-shifter - you could optimise every gear change.

 

[shiny]

Pinkbike have reviewed it:

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/archer-components-wireless-electronic-shifter-review.html

It is interesting and would love to give it a go, will be interesting to see how they develop further.

 

[Oddjob]

@Zaf if that twist shift on your pinion pisses you off this may be the answer. To be honest I'd be surprised if pinion didn't come up with their own electronic shift system at some point.

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[Zaf]

@Zaf if that twist shift on your pinion pisses you off this may be the answer. To be honest I'd be surprised if pinion didn't come up with their own electronic shift system at some point.

I doubt it'd work. The Pinion is gripshift is because it needs to be able to apply tension in both directions to change up and down. The Archer system is designed around having a pre-loaded spring that you then index against in a single direction.

But rumour has it that they're working on a hydraulic shifting solution for it. The only issue with a grip shifter is that it limits choice in grips, but even then, there are some decent WTB and Ergon grips that accommodate it, so I doubt it'll be a practical disadvantage.

 

[Oddjob]

But rumour has it that they're working on a hydraulic shifting solution for it. The only issue with a grip shifter is that it limits choice in grips, but even then, there are some decent WTB and Ergon grips that accommodate it, so I doubt it'll be a practical disadvantage.

And the unintended shifts when applying body language to the bike. ODI do short grips as well.


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[Zaf]

@Oddjob don't make me say it, but you know I can't shift when there's power on the pedals...so not going to be a problem for whenever body language is involved.

 

[Flow-Rider]

A lot of those wireless units have a small delay in shifting because they go into sleep mode to save the battery power. Simplicity of cables is good enough for me.

 

[discofrank]

But rumour has it that they're working on a hydraulic shifting solution for it. The only issue with a grip shifter is that it limits choice in grips, but even then, there are some decent WTB and Ergon grips that accommodate it, so I doubt it'll be a practical disadvantage.

ohhhh really got any more info???? thats a bit different

 

[crank1979]

And the unintended shifts when applying body language to the bike.

That's never been an issue with the Pinion shifter.

 

[Oddjob]

@Zaf and @crank1979 fair enough re unintended shifts. But I would still want a trigger shifter setup before considering a gearbox. I've never liked the ergonomics of gripshifts (or motorbike throttles for the matter).

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[Zaf]

ohhhh really got any more info???? thats a bit different

The Hydraulic one was talked about in a podcast, I think they wanted to explore non-electronic means to shifting, and would likely be retrofitted as a module for the box where aftermarket.

@Zaf and @crank1979 fair enough re unintended shifts. But I would still want a trigger shifter setup before considering a gearbox. I've never liked the ergonomics of gripshifts (or motorbike throttles for the matter).

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If you get the C-Line gearbox (lighter version) you can use a Cinq shifter aftermarket on it. Not yet available for the P-Line boxes though.

 

[Oddjob]

If you get the C-Line gearbox (lighter version) you can use a Cinq shifter aftermarket on it. Not yet available for the P-Line boxes though.

Hmm interesting, that suggests you might be able to get it to work with bar end shifters. I might have to investigate further if I build up a dedicated tourer.

I'll be interested to read your writeup of shifting performance once the gearbox has some kms in it. I think most experienced cyclists do a quick acceleration then a pause on shifts under power to avoid crunching gears, but it sounds like the pinion needs much closer attention.


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[Zaf]

Hmm interesting, that suggests you might be able to get it to work with bar end shifters. I might have to investigate further if I build up a dedicated tourer.

I'll be interested to read your writeup of shifting performance once the gearbox has some kms in it. I think most experienced cyclists do a quick acceleration then a pause on shifts under power to avoid crunching gears, but it sounds like the pinion needs much closer attention.

From what I've read, a lot of the riders seem to hold their shifter ready, then just do a quick back pedal to shift (uphill) dump the gears and pedal on. It would be great to see a spring loaded clutch that is activated through the tension on the shifting. Early days of the gearbox though!! I'm jumping in and throwing my support because I want to make sure they remain viable and successful to further develop the product, willing to deal with the teething (potential gear pun there) issues in order to get that.

But yes, will be very interesting to see how much of a practical difference it makes. Vital defintely said that they had trouble re-learning the techniques even after several months on the system, and it is something I'm coming into completely blind. Just be aware there's going to be some confirmation bias from anything I say about it...you don't drop $10,000 and then not make sure the investment pays off.

 

[Nambra]

...you don't drop $10,000 and then not make sure the investment pays off.

Don't sweat it @Zaf, some people spend that much on bikes with derailleurs!

 

[discofrank]

Don't sweat it @Zaf, some people spend that much on bikes with derailleurs!

whats a deraileur ????

From what I've read, a lot of the riders seem to hold their shifter ready, then just do a quick back pedal to shift (uphill) dump the gears and pedal on. It would be great to see a spring loaded clutch that is activated through the tension on the shifting. Early days of the gearbox though!! I'm jumping in and throwing my support because I want to make sure they remain viable and successful to further develop the product, willing to deal with the teething (potential gear pun there) issues in order to get that.

But yes, will be very interesting to see how much of a practical difference it makes. Vital defintely said that they had trouble re-learning the techniques even after several months on the system, and it is something I'm coming into completely blind. Just be aware there's going to be some confirmation bias from anything I say about it...you don't drop $10,000 and then not make sure the investment pays off.

this clutch idea sounds awesome!

I have no issues shifting mine now days, its second nature to take a bit of pressure off the pedals, shift and keep pedaling, the worst part is the LAG or time of ( degrees ) engagement party due to the stock hub i have and the gearbox
shme i dont have the C line gearbox why wont that shift work on the p lines? do they not shift the same??

 

[Zaf]

whats a deraileur ????




this clutch idea sounds awesome!

I have no issues shifting mine now days, its second nature to take a bit of pressure off the pedals, shift and keep pedaling, the worst part is the LAG or time of ( degrees ) engagement party due to the stock hub i have and the gearbox
shme i dont have the C line gearbox why wont that shift work on the p lines? do they not shift the same??

Which hub are you using on the rear? I went with the Pinion hub for my build, which has pretty solid engagement, hoping that offsets it some. The dead zone on the gearboxes ratchet is pretty large, but I think it's all just to do with them prioritizing reliability and durability on the P-series.

The C line's are a lighter gearbox, I'm not too sure why it says it isn't compatible with the P-Lines, perhaps it's a different indexing on it with a shorter throw that allows for the switch, would like to have a look at how the shifter actually works with the Pinion.

 

[discofrank]

Which hub are you using on the rear? I went with the Pinion hub for my build, which has pretty solid engagement, hoping that offsets it some. The dead zone on the gearboxes ratchet is pretty large, but I think it's all just to do with them prioritizing reliability and durability on the P-series.

The C line's are a lighter gearbox, I'm not too sure why it says it isn't compatible with the P-Lines, perhaps it's a different indexing on it with a shorter throw that allows for the switch, would like to have a look at how the shifter actually works with the Pinion.

I have a Giant hub on the rear ( from my old trance ) kept the cost of new bike down, really want a single speed hop hub on there next
I did read of people putting fixie hubs on the rear of gearbox bikes as the box has its own frewheel so to speak
sure the chain will keep spinning no idea if that would affect the gearbox though

 

[Zaf]

I have a Giant hub on the rear ( from my old trance ) kept the cost of new bike down, really want a single speed hop hub on there next
I did read of people putting fixie hubs on the rear of gearbox bikes as the box has its own frewheel so to speak
sure the chain will keep spinning no idea if that would affect the gearbox though

I'm not sure I'm willing to go Fixie on it, but from a wheel building point of view, definitely go the Single Speed. The Pinion hubs are seriously beautiful, just for reference.