Electric Vehicles etc

M

mxh

Likes Dirt
Haakon said:
No, that part was fine. It was all the other claims he made that were either technically incorrect or simply misrepresented…
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I thought it was quite an interesting article with some plausible arguments (to a layman, anyway). Which parts do you think are incorrect or misrepresented?
 
Haakon

Haakon

has an accommodating arse
mxh said:
I thought it was quite an interesting article with some plausible arguments (to a layman, anyway). Which parts do you think are incorrect or misrepresented?
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Most of it... It fails in the first paragraph by implying that anyone thinks EVs are a panacea, and goes downhill from there. Lots of the fails are simply being disingenuous such as pointing out the environmental impacts of EV and battery production without providing context against ICE and oil production. Its claims about synthetic fuels and hydrogen for road transport are also woefully ill informed and seem to just parrot media releases from Porsche and the oil companies pushing hydrogen.

For example, this is Porsche's synthetic fuel plant in Chile - its greenwashing at this point and not a serious alternating to EVs anytime soon!
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Tubbsy

Tubbsy

Packin' a small bird
Staff member
mxh said:
I thought it was quite an interesting article with some plausible arguments (to a layman, anyway). Which parts do you think are incorrect or misrepresented?
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I'm a layman in the field, but I read this guy's analysis of Atkinson's article which seems reasonable (you have to read some of his other writing that her refers to):

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1665313543439122432

Obviously travelling less by car, whether electric or ICE is going to have an even better impact.
 
Scotty T

Scotty T

Walks the walk
mxh said:
I thought it was quite an interesting article with some plausible arguments (to a layman, anyway). Which parts do you think are incorrect or misrepresented?
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What @Haakon said, and the bit about batteries being too heavy for trucks. We have trucks, with batteries, moving freight, right now.
 
Scotty T

Scotty T

Walks the walk
Tubbsy said:
I'm a layman in the field, but I read this guy's analysis of Atkinson's article which seems reasonable (you have to read some of his other writing that her refers to):
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I like this bit: Maybe it's just that he wants to defend his love of combustion cars. Because although he has an electric one, he has boatloads of really expensive combustion cars too, and it seems that is where his heart lies.
 
Haakon

Haakon

has an accommodating arse
Scotty T said:
I like this bit: Maybe it's just that he wants to defend his love of combustion cars. Because although he has an electric one, he has boatloads of really expensive combustion cars too, and it seems that is where his heart lies.
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Nah, it's just lazy thinking, bias and ego.
 
Scotty T

Scotty T

Walks the walk
Haakon

Haakon

has an accommodating arse
Scotty T said:
A selfie in a matching bikini would be stunning!

The article is 5 years old. Cobalt is no longer in most batteries. At the very least, we can control the impact of this, unlike when an oil well breaks or a brown coal mine catches fire.
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Lots of cobalt still being used in petrol refineries though.
 
beeb

beeb

Dr. Beebenson, PhD HA, ST, Offset (hons)
Scotty T said:
We have trucks, with batteries, moving freight, right now.
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Only a handful of prototypes currently on the road in the heavy vehicle field though. Volvo are bringing the electric FH to market here (first ones are already sold but not yet delivered and probably still with sizeable lead-times I would guess).

Most of the electric trucks here currently on the road are small/medium duty local delivery type stuff. Current battery tech is tricky at the moment for heavy vehicles as to get anywhere near the range needed for (the shorter end) of 'long-haul' the vehicles end up with too much weight on the front axles and current front-axle weight limits for "Road Friendly" suspension are ~7-8 ton (IIRC.). There is work being done in the industry to get heavier weight-rating "Road Friendly" approved, but has not been completed yet. Even some of the medium duty BEV trucks currently on the road here are full imports registered with prototyping concessions (I know one of the models on the road is technically over-width and not ADR-compliant due to the mounting position and width of the battery packs).

Electric is a great solution for local delivery/waste disposal vehicles with lots of stop-start and short travelled distance, but there's still quiet a way to go before it approaches widespread adoption for long-haul. Not saying it can't/shouldn't happen - just there's still a long way to go.
 
Haakon

Haakon

has an accommodating arse
beeb said:
Only a handful of prototypes currently on the road in the heavy vehicle field though. Volvo are bringing the electric FH to market here (first ones are already sold but not yet delivered and probably still with sizeable lead-times I would guess).

Most of the electric trucks here currently on the road are small/medium duty local delivery type stuff. Current battery tech is tricky at the moment for heavy vehicles as to get anywhere near the range needed for (the shorter end) of 'long-haul' the vehicles end up with too much weight on the front axles and current front-axle weight limits for "Road Friendly" suspension are ~7-8 ton (IIRC.). There is work being done in the industry to get heavier weight-rating "Road Friendly" approved, but has not been completed yet. Even some of the medium duty BEV trucks currently on the road here are full imports registered with prototyping concessions (I know one of the models on the road is technically over-width and not ADR-compliant due to the mounting position and width of the battery packs).

Electric is a great solution for local delivery/waste disposal vehicles with lots of stop-start and short travelled distance, but there's still quiet a way to go before it approaches widespread adoption for long-haul. Not saying it can't/shouldn't happen - just there's still a long way to go.
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Long haul shouldn't be trucks anyway - should be on trains.

Tesla Semi is in production at last, starting to roll out to early orders.
 
beeb

beeb

Dr. Beebenson, PhD HA, ST, Offset (hons)
Haakon said:
Long haul shouldn't be trucks anyway - should be on trains.
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Absolutely should be for East-West (yes and West-East you for the pedants on here...) and for the Eastern states. But sadly there's no investment in that area. The 'progress' on the East coast inland rail is pretty telling about the future of trucks in Aus for the next 20 or so years. There's also a lot of regional vehicle movements that won't be replaced with trains at any stage in reality.
 
Haakon

Haakon

has an accommodating arse
beeb said:
Absolutely should be for East-West (yes and West-East you for the pedants on here...) and for the Eastern states. But sadly there's no investment in that area. The 'progress' on the East coast inland rail is pretty telling about the future of trucks in Aus for the next 20 or so years. There's also a lot of regional vehicle movements that won't be replaced with trains at any stage in reality.
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There has been decades of deliberate de-investment...

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ozzybmx

ozzybmx

taking a shit with my boobs out
dirtdad said:
Reading some mixed reviews of the Atto 3s real world tested range. Some say it’s good, others it’s crap. Why such a discrepancy? Is this common with EV range tests?
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We have a standard range Atto3 and it's average is 14.2kw per 100km. Which would be about right for city driving. It's got a 50kw battery and going on the expected range of 320-340km.

Got the big range anxiety test this Friday, 270km of highway to Melrose with a loaded car.
There's a load of chargers planned to go in on the main road but not built as yet.
Reckon she's going to zap it with a DC charger at a Northern suburbs shopping centre about 50km from the home to reduce the jump from 270km to 220km for the first trip to see how the car goes loaded.
 
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