Electric Vehicles etc

PJO

in me vL comy
But with 40-50% of that energy lost to heat, and a chunk more to driveline losses - it's not as big a difference as it seems. It's still a big gap, but not that big.
You totally, but we are still talking greater than an order of magnitude (10x) difference.
If they can make batteries even 5x the capacity of what they are today ICE cars are dead.
 

Calvin27

Eats Squid
If they can make batteries even 5x the capacity of what they are today ICE cars are dead.
I think it's more, if they can make the kW cheaper rather than specific capacity (i.e. kWh/kg). Humanity has demonstrated that we have absolutely zero issues driving ever bigger and heavier cars!
 

Scotty T

Walks the walk
You totally, but we are still talking greater than an order of magnitude (10x) difference.
If they can make batteries even 5x the capacity of what they are today ICE cars are dead.
Current battery energy density will do everyone except people driving vehicles a long way every day to make their living. Tesla SR has a bit more than half the range of a VW golf, and most other vehicles on the market. IMHO there will be less than 100kg (or 1 standard metric GravelBurner) difference to achieve range parity in the near future. There is already less than 100kg weight difference in the whole car (Audi A4 is 40kg lighter than a Model 3), because ICE and associated parts are heavier.

As for hypercar owners, the petrol is justified, because most of the owners are young very fit humans that spend several hours behind the wheel without stopping, driving it just below the limit, taking advantage of the superior range and dynamics offered by ICE :D

ICE cars are already dead, we just pretend they're not and find silly excuses like range and dynamics to keep them. I call utter bullshit for 90% of people using either of these excuses.
 

tubby74

Likes Bikes and Dirt
took another road trip over the holidays out to canowindra for the balloons. Done many miles before but this was the first trip heading more rural and away from the well sorted supercharger routes. Top up in bathurst no problem, but from there we had to rely on a single NRMA charger which had 2 cars queued, but managed to go back later and top up no problem. We could have done the trip without that, but then not had the range to do stuff around the area during the day and still make it back to bathurst, so we would have had to plan more around range. cowra and orange each have a single one of these chargers, and a few hotels with on site charging. Orange is due for a supercharger soon. We had made this last minute so couldnty book accommodation that advertised a charger.

being the first trip out on B roads, the torque of the electric motor is a lot of fun on those roads, something you dont really get to feel on a motorway road trip.
 

Scotty T

Walks the walk
I think it's more, if they can make the kW cheaper rather than specific capacity (i.e. kWh/kg). Humanity has demonstrated that we have absolutely zero issues driving ever bigger and heavier cars!
The kW's that go in a battery are cheaper than petrol. 5-7 years payback depending on mileage and ability to charge for free (solar) or cheap (off peak). Most of us don't really need higher capacity batteries.

took another road trip over the holidays out to canowindra for the balloons. Done many miles before but this was the first trip heading more rural and away from the well sorted supercharger routes. Top up in bathurst no problem, but from there we had to rely on a single NRMA charger which had 2 cars queued, but managed to go back later and top up no problem.
This freaks people out, but I had to wait in a queue the other night for petrol at my local station. It was depressing as I imagined just being able to plug in at home.
 

tubby74

Likes Bikes and Dirt
This freaks people out, but I had to wait in a queue the other night for petrol at my local station. It was depressing as I imagined just being able to plug in at home.
depends a lot on how people are using them. The nrma chargers are 50kw compared to 125 up to 350 for superchargers. That means a larger charge could be well over an hour per car. i only needed to top up from 75% but being that slower last bit it was still longer than i'd want to wait. fortunately it has built in apps so was able to watch tv as it charged but wouldnt want to wait for 2 cars plus me there for over 2 hours.
 

Scotty T

Walks the walk
A mate named David said:
This week our timid government announced a plan to do some consultations on another plan which may or may not be announced later this year, and may result in some legislation being passed next year, which will almost certainly be watered down after industry has deployed their lobbyists.
Meanwhile in New Zealand they have actual policy with teeth. A policy which penalises the purchase of gas guzzlers up to $5175, and subsidises the purchase of zero emissions vehicles up to $8625. All the Labor government has done is exempt EVs from FBT which basically puts them on a level playing field with tradie trucks.

Pathetic.

We elected this government to do something about climate change and all they do is dither and compare themselves to the last mob. 2030 is only six years and eight months away. We're supposed to have reduced emissions by 43 percent by then. Vehicles purchased today will still be on the road in 2030. We have no time to waste.
 

Haakon

Keeps on digging
Its not quite that bad... The reality of the situation these days is the lobbyists need to be seen to have been consulted to help it not be a wedge issue that gets attacked relentlessly. Its sucks and is totally the fault of the massively increased toxicity in politics over the last decade on this stuff.

So give it a little time, it will ensure a more robust and enduring policy if assorted motions are gone through.
 

Scotty T

Walks the walk
This gave me a chuckle, just popped up on socials, from AEVA, ten EV commandments via ChatGPT:

1. Verily, plan thy trip with the wisdom of Solomon and the cunning of a fox, lest ye becometh stranded like a beached whale.
2. Know thy electric steed's true range, for illusions and wishful thinking shall not propel thee forward.
3. Charge thy wagon like a squirrel hoards nuts, with abundance and regularity.
4. Fret not about charging costs, for if thou can buy a shiny electric horse, thou can surely feed it too.
5. At charging stations, behave not like a gluttonous king; leave some juice for thy fellow pilgrims.
6. Park with grace and thought, that others may quench the thirst of their electric companions.
7. Inquire with gentleness and respect of the charging station's keeper before plugging in thine electric stallion.
8. Forget not the sacred cables, for without them thou shalt be like a bard without his lute.
9. Arm thyself with a trove of fast-charging apps, lest thou spendeth more time seeking than charging.
10. Laugh heartily, like a jester in the king's court, as thou passeth petrol stations and beholdest the dwindling relics of a bygone era.
 

Scotty T

Walks the walk
The amount of delusion from ICE devotees on socail media car groups is hilarious.

A guy posted his Kia EV6 GT and the ICE heads lit up.

One fella claimed his Hellcat corners and stops better than all EV's.

"Visceral" and "soul" are used to describe one of the most inefficient ways to get propulsion. By people who are yet to drive a dual motor EV.

Hydrogen keeps coming up, as if these people will be using it to keep the visceral soul going in their car by burning hydrogen.

I was in a carpark at the Farmers Markets on the weekend, there were two SUV's sitting nearby for 5-10 mins with their engine idling, one had a couple inside enjoying some snacks they just got from the market, the other was waiting for someone who was grabbing some shopping. In hindsight, if I see this happening again, and it's not a stinking hot or bitterly cold day, I'm going to engage and ask them politely to stop poisoning me unecessarily.

Peeps who have auto stop/start in the car, do you ever switch it off? If so why? I see many cars with it (nearly all cars since 2018) and their engines still idling at the lights so they must have it turned off. Is it less visceral if the engine isn't idling? Did they believe John Cabogan's rubbish about all the "damage" starting an engine does?
 

Haakon

Keeps on digging
The amount of delusion from ICE devotees on socail media car groups is hilarious.

A guy posted his Kia EV6 GT and the ICE heads lit up.

One fella claimed his Hellcat corners and stops better than all EV's.

"Visceral" and "soul" are used to describe one of the most inefficient ways to get propulsion. By people who are yet to drive a dual motor EV.

Hydrogen keeps coming up, as if these people will be using it to keep the visceral soul going in their car by burning hydrogen.

I was in a carpark at the Farmers Markets on the weekend, there were two SUV's sitting nearby for 5-10 mins with their engine idling, one had a couple inside enjoying some snacks they just got from the market, the other was waiting for someone who was grabbing some shopping. In hindsight, if I see this happening again, and it's not a stinking hot or bitterly cold day, I'm going to engage and ask them politely to stop poisoning me unecessarily.

Peeps who have auto stop/start in the car, do you ever switch it off? If so why? I see many cars with it (nearly all cars since 2018) and their engines still idling at the lights so they must have it turned off. Is it less visceral if the engine isn't idling? Did they believe John Cabogan's rubbish about all the "damage" starting an engine does?
The Alfa has stop start, as did the Clio. The Alfa’s system actually stays off when you disable it, whereas the Clio reset to on every time you started it.

There was a way to disable it by disconnecting the voltage sensor at the battery I think, but never got around to it. The Clio wasn’t a good engine for SS as it was a 3 cylinder, and sometimes the crank started in a position for a smooth restart, but mostly it started with a jolt. The Alfa is pretty smooth, but I switched it off during the running in period and don’t think I’ve ever turned it back on. Turned it on by accident as the button is next the shut the hell up button for the parking sensors.

I don’t particularly like it, but not any rational reason. I also didn’t spend the extra for a stop start battery….
 

Haakon

Keeps on digging
Also, just because a SS equipped car is idling at the lights doesn’t always mean they turned it off - it only activates when all the stars have aligned and after a year or two in the Clio it was still not clear why it activated sometimes and not others!!

But short version it won’t kick in unless the battery is tickity boo, the engine is warm, the catalyst is humming perfectly and probably a bunch of other parameters. Won’t kick in if the AC is trying to pull down cabin temp or the heater raise. Etc etc….
 

Dales Cannon

lightbrain about 4pm
Staff member
The amount of delusion from ICE devotees on socail media car groups is hilarious.

A guy posted his Kia EV6 GT and the ICE heads lit up.

One fella claimed his Hellcat corners and stops better than all EV's.

"Visceral" and "soul" are used to describe one of the most inefficient ways to get propulsion. By people who are yet to drive a dual motor EV.

Hydrogen keeps coming up, as if these people will be using it to keep the visceral soul going in their car by burning hydrogen.

I was in a carpark at the Farmers Markets on the weekend, there were two SUV's sitting nearby for 5-10 mins with their engine idling, one had a couple inside enjoying some snacks they just got from the market, the other was waiting for someone who was grabbing some shopping. In hindsight, if I see this happening again, and it's not a stinking hot or bitterly cold day, I'm going to engage and ask them politely to stop poisoning me unecessarily.

Peeps who have auto stop/start in the car, do you ever switch it off? If so why? I see many cars with it (nearly all cars since 2018) and their engines still idling at the lights so they must have it turned off. Is it less visceral if the engine isn't idling? Did they believe John Cabogan's rubbish about all the "damage" starting an engine does?
I leave mine on unless I am doing a road that has a heap of short runs between lights. The only times I have stalled have been when the car decides to shut down as I am already punching the clutch. It takes time to restart and if it stops as you press the clutch that is about 5 or 6 seconds. I have already let it out by then... Oh and it is disabled in track mode.

Just about everyone I know switches it off and are surprised I dont. My response is it may do nothing for fuel consumption, it may do nothing for overall emissions but at least for 20 or 30 seconds a time at lights there is less shit in the air for any pedestrians who are waiting at the lights. I had the wear and tear bullshit thrown at me and I just said no that is not correct the system is designed for this in heavy city traffic so if it fucks up then it is the manufacturers problem.
 

Haakon

Keeps on digging
I’ll turn it back on the Alfa and see how it performs. Just never really thought much about it to be honest!

It was pretty intrusive on the Clio, but with firing pulses at 120 degrees three cylinder engines just tend to start with a bit of a jolt.
 

SummitFever

Eats Squid
I'm still convinced the best thing we can do is drive less. An old car that isn't driven is better for the environment than the newest consumerism gone made got to have the latest and greatest electric car.

Also, the focus on electric vehicles is a classic government looking like they're doing something but in reality doing SFA. Light vehicles only cause 11% of Australia's greenhouse gas emissions and if all were electric cars that would not drop to anywhere near zero.

What's happening with the other 89%.
 

Haakon

Keeps on digging
I'm still convinced the best thing we can do is drive less. An old car that isn't driven is better for the environment than the newest consumerism gone made got to have the latest and greatest electric car.

Also, the focus on electric vehicles is a classic government looking like they're doing something but in reality doing SFA. Light vehicles only cause 11% of Australia's greenhouse gas emissions and if all were electric cars that would not drop to anywhere near zero.

What's happening with the other 89%.
A lot is happening with the 89%.
 

link1896

Mr Greenfield
I'm still convinced the best thing we can do is drive less. An old car that isn't driven is better for the environment than the newest consumerism gone made got to have the latest and greatest electric car.

Also, the focus on electric vehicles is a classic government looking like they're doing something but in reality doing SFA. Light vehicles only cause 11% of Australia's greenhouse gas emissions and if all were electric cars that would not drop to anywhere near zero.

What's happening with the other 89%.
Government and big business insist we replace the entire fleet, that is all they seem to be able to come up with as a solution. It’s far from ideal. Maybe Mars will be 62% lithium, 22% Cobalt and all our problems will be sorted?

Indeed coming back to reality, driving less, and substituting a bicycle or walking for short trips is the answer for so many reasons.

Even if that bicycle becomes an ebike with pedal assist.

The numbers make it compelling.

Tesla model 3 ball park 100-110Wh per km.
Pedal assist eMtb ball park 10-15Wh per km.

 

mark22

Likes Dirt
The Alfa has stop start, as did the Clio. The Alfa’s system actually stays off when you disable it, whereas the Clio reset to on every time you started it.
Are you sure it wasn't just stalling...as part of that legendary Alpha reliability..
 
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