Electric Vehicles etc

beeb

Dr. Beebenson, PhD HA, ST, Offset (hons)
They are not like converting to LPG, this is a chemically identical fuel that has to meet existing fuel quality standards. You might tell the difference in extended oil changes as its a more "pure" fuel, but otherwise it behaves the same.
Bear in mind, I've not looked into 'green' fuels at all. But this is the bit I don't get. How is made from different ingredients but still the same?
 

Oddjob

Can hench anywhere any time
Bear in mind, I've not looked into 'green' fuels at all. But this is the bit I don't get. How is made from different ingredients but still the same?
Haven't you watched Breaking Bad?!

Sent from my M2012K11AG using Tapatalk
 

Haakon

Trap? What trap?
Bear in mind, I've not looked into 'green' fuels at all. But this is the bit I don't get. How is made from different ingredients but still the same?
Its just making syngas from H2 (from electrolysers using renewable electricity) and CO2 from the atmosphere. Then its conventional refineries operations to make the hydrocarbon of your choice - everything from methane down to lubricants.

Fun fact - Shell make their Helis Ultra engine oils from natural gas using the same processes.
 

Cardy George

Piercing rural members since 1981
Its just making syngas from H2 (from electrolysers using renewable electricity) and CO2 from the atmosphere. Then its conventional refineries operations to make the hydrocarbon of your choice - everything from methane down to lubricants.

Fun fact - Shell make their Helis Ultra engine oils from natural gas using the same processes.
So they suck CO² in to make it, then CO is released when it's burnt?
 

Skydome

What's invisible and smells like hay?
whatever happened to the idea of sucking in existing c02 and processing it into a burnable fuel?

I'm guessing that wasn't feasible after all?
 

Haakon

Trap? What trap?
So they suck CO² in to make it, then CO is released when it's burnt?
Sorry, read your message wrong - its sucking in CO2 to use with H2 to make a hydrocarbon fuel and that behave identically to conventional hydrocarbon fuels, producing CO2 back into the air.

And just like normal fuel, it also produces CO, and CH4 (and other unburnt hydrocarbon species) and N2O and particulates etc.
 

Cardy George

Piercing rural members since 1981
Sorry, read your message wrong - its sucking in CO2 to use with H2 to make a hydrocarbon fuel and that behave identically to conventional hydrocarbon fuels, producing CO2 back into the air.

And just like normal fuel, it also produces CO, and CH4 (and other unburnt hydrocarbon species) and N2O and particulates etc.
So effectively doing bugger all to fix the problem. It gives me hope that I'll be able to buy fuel of some description if I ever get the Old Wagon out of the shed.
 

Haakon

Trap? What trap?
So effectively doing bugger all to fix the problem. It gives me hope that I'll be able to buy fuel of some description if I ever get the Old Wagon out of the shed.
No, think about it. CO2 out of the atmosphere, CO2 back in. It’s carbon neutral.

It doesn’t address air quality issues, but it does address the GHG ones.

Carbon Monoxide is not a GHG.
 

Stredda

Runs naked through virgin scrub
What it's doing is not adding additional CO2 to the atmosphere, whereas if you are making the fuel from oil, you are taking CO2 that was locked away underground and releasing it to the atmosphere. It's certainly not green but it's a way to transition greener technologies of the future.
 

Scotty T

2.6 inches
What it's doing is not adding additional CO2 to the atmosphere, whereas if you are making the fuel from oil, you are taking CO2 that was locked away underground and releasing it to the atmosphere. It's certainly not green but it's a way to transition greener technologies of the future.
But gas comes out of the ground (for current synthetic fuels) and therefore is locked away CO2 no? And lots of energy is used to make it from either gas or H2. They don't already have these magic carbon catchers at scale to make these fuels do they? This is all pretty experimental, including the first raw ingredient, Green H2 is still ridiculously expensive vapour ware.

Then it goes into a wildly inefficient systems to waste more energy as heat.

What it's doing is not adding additional CO2 to the atmosphere, whereas if you are making the fuel from oil, you are taking CO2 that was locked away underground and releasing it to the atmosphere. It's certainly not green but it's a way to transition greener technologies of the future.
I'm calling bullshit, this won't be fuel you can just buy because you have nostalgia for an old car, it will be used where electricity just can't be used (hardly anywhere) and I don't think it will be a transition fuel for stuff that can already be done with BEV, that seems like a waste of money making all the infrastructure for a temporay fuel.

if I ever get the Old Wagon out of the shed it will have to get an electric motor.
FIFY.
 

fjohn860

Crypto curious
I used to visit a customer's site that processes farmed Skippy's for leather goods. All Skippy's bits that wasn't leather was sold to a joint making carbon neutral biodiesel. Win win.

People buying Gucci jackets (and those buying motorcycle leathers) get what they want and the rest of Skippy isn't just going to landfill!
 
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Haakon

Trap? What trap?
But gas comes out of the ground (for current synthetic fuels) and therefore is locked away CO2 no? And lots of energy is used to make it from either gas or H2. They don't already have these magic carbon catchers at scale to make these fuels do they? This is all pretty experimental, including the first raw ingredient, Green H2 is still ridiculously expensive vapour ware.

Then it goes into a wildly inefficient systems to waste more energy as heat.



I'm calling bullshit, this won't be fuel you can just buy because you have nostalgia for an old car, it will be used where electricity just can't be used (hardly anywhere) and I don't think it will be a transition fuel for stuff that can already be done with BEV, that seems like a waste of money making all the infrastructure for a temporay fuel.



FIFY.
Hydrogen is currently made from natural gas via steam reformation, but this proposal is using hydrogen made via electrolysis powered by renewable electricity (ie hydro in Tasmania). It is not taking gas out of the ground, the carbon in the eventual hydrocarbon product is from CO2 out of the atmosphere.

It will hopefully be done at scale and essentially decarbonise aviation. There is no real alternative for liquid fuels for aviation, and unlike the boutique Porsche product it can be a serious greenhouse measure.

BP are pretty serious about making renewable diesel and SAF (sustainable aviation fuel) using this process at the old Kwinana refinery in Perth.
 

Freediver

Likes Bikes and Dirt
While there isn't much green hydrogen around at the moment there is a lot of production in the pipeline with current estimates that it will be cost competitive with FF by 2030.
It's dead easy to make with no tricky patents to get around. The tech has been around for years.
I've even mucked around making it at home but have to get some platinum electrodes before I experiment again because making toxic chromium solutions from stainless electrodes isn't cool.
 
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