downunderdallas
Likes Dirt
and there is a 4WD variant of this with a motor in the back too if I am not mistaken maybe not the Renault yet but the Ariya, does that then make it good again?
Electric Vehicles etc
- Thread starter Cardy George
- Start date
Haakon
greenbean counter
Have a look at the size and placement of a Tesla front drive unit vs the Renault one
Anyway, you can like the reno, I jsut think it’s a poor effort. And as a long time renault fan it’s not jsut me being anti renault!
Stredda
Runs naked through virgin scrub
It's not so much of where the motor is it's how it's all packaged. What Tesla is very good at, is the packaging of all their components, and having parts that do more than one function and integrate into other systems.
Most old school OEMs still build with a catalogue mentality, meaning that they pick off the shelf components for all their systems. This tends to lead to a lot of compromises, especially in regard to space claim. You have multiple ECUs, multiple pumps, multiple fuse blocks, a whole spaghetti mess of hoses, all just doing that one function, you won't see that in a Tesla.
Tesla on the other hand, are much more vertically integrated, where they manufacture a lot more of their own components and these components can be designed specifically for the job that it is intended.
The "Octovalve" for instance is a Tesla designed and manufactured part that controls both the HVAC and battery thermal management in the one unit. This valve alone gave a 10% increase in efficiency. A standard OEM would have several separate systems to do the same function. Tesla drive units are another example, the inverter and electronics are all packaged in with the drive unit and in a way that is the most space efficient. Even the mega castings Tesla use, save dozens of sheet metal components and serve as both structural units and for mounting surfaces.
Most current OEMs take their standard ICE floorpan and cram an EV drivetrain into it and make do with a whole lot of off the shelf parts to make it all work.
The AWD teslas have a front motor and a frunk.
Tesla has many faults, but they are very good at vertical integration and thinking outside the standard automotive manufacturing box on how to build a car.
Most old school OEMs still build with a catalogue mentality, meaning that they pick off the shelf components for all their systems. This tends to lead to a lot of compromises, especially in regard to space claim. You have multiple ECUs, multiple pumps, multiple fuse blocks, a whole spaghetti mess of hoses, all just doing that one function, you won't see that in a Tesla.
Tesla on the other hand, are much more vertically integrated, where they manufacture a lot more of their own components and these components can be designed specifically for the job that it is intended.
The "Octovalve" for instance is a Tesla designed and manufactured part that controls both the HVAC and battery thermal management in the one unit. This valve alone gave a 10% increase in efficiency. A standard OEM would have several separate systems to do the same function. Tesla drive units are another example, the inverter and electronics are all packaged in with the drive unit and in a way that is the most space efficient. Even the mega castings Tesla use, save dozens of sheet metal components and serve as both structural units and for mounting surfaces.
Most current OEMs take their standard ICE floorpan and cram an EV drivetrain into it and make do with a whole lot of off the shelf parts to make it all work.
The AWD teslas have a front motor and a frunk.
Tesla has many faults, but they are very good at vertical integration and thinking outside the standard automotive manufacturing box on how to build a car.
Haakon
greenbean counter
Exactly.It's not so much of where the motor is it's how it's all packaged. What Tesla is very good at, is the packaging of all their components, and having parts that do more than one function and integrate into other systems.
Most old school OEMs still build with a catalogue mentality, meaning that they pick off the shelf components for all their systems. This tends to lead to a lot of compromises, especially in regard to space claim. You have multiple ECUs, multiple pumps, multiple fuse blocks, a whole spaghetti mess of hoses, all just doing that one function, you won't see that in a Tesla.
Tesla on the other hand, are much more vertically integrated, where they manufacture a lot more of their own components and these components can be designed specifically for the job that it is intended.
The "Octovalve" for instance is a Tesla designed and manufactured part that controls both the HVAC and battery thermal management in the one unit. This valve alone gave a 10% increase in efficiency. A standard OEM would have several separate systems to do the same function. Tesla drive units are another example, the inverter and electronics are all packaged in with the drive unit and in a way that is the most space efficient. Even the mega castings Tesla use, save dozens of sheet metal components and serve as both structural units and for mounting surfaces.
Most current OEMs take their standard ICE floorpan and cram an EV drivetrain into it and make do with a whole lot of off the shelf parts to make it all work.
The AWD teslas have a front motor and a frunk.
Tesla has many faults, but they are very good at vertical integration and thinking outside the standard automotive manufacturing box on how to build a car.
Stredda
Runs naked through virgin scrub
Haakon
greenbean counter
For its price point they’re good. BYD is the second best EV manufacturer behind Tesla i think - their new Seal sedan is very promising looking.
They make their own batteries and supply to the Chinese Teslas and others including Toyotas last ditch late entry to the EV world.
ozzybmx
Not a tree-hugging earth muffin
I've booked her in for a test drive tomorrow. Sub $50 and zero FBT when leasing... hits the spot though a model 3 is only about $10k more.
Oddjob
Merry fucking Xmas to you assholes
We've got a deposit on one. The blade batteries are the safest tech at the moment. Fwd only but range is good and panel gaps appear to be better than Tesla. Also have national service network.
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ozzybmx
Not a tree-hugging earth muffin
Cheers, good to hear they are 'up' there.
The price for an Atto3 is in about $47k, will see how the old girl goes (missus, not the car), alternative is the Model 3 at $62k or my preference Model Y at $70k.
At $23k less, I'll weight up the plusses'/negatives apart from the $23k price difference.
A novated lease saves the GST off the price, dont know if the local dealer of BYD will do a fleet discount price. Will see tomorrow.
Zero FBT which means the whole car payment is pre tax, no LCT on any of the 3 listed and SA is doing 3 years free rego on full EV's.
Definitely worth the look over hybrid vehicles.
downunderdallas
Likes Dirt
Model 3 is a lot more car for the money in many ways but they are quite different I guess. My wife prefers her Nissan Leaf to my Tesla. BYD also does vehicle to load if that is of interest (can plug things into your car) up to 3.6kw I think. I think it's pretty good looking on the outside have seen a couple in the flesh. The inside is a bit more polarising I haven't sat in one just peered through the window. If you do much country driving in most places Tesla's supercharger network is more reliable than other alternatives. Battery tech is probably much of a muchness with base Tesla, both LFP batteries although the blade in the BYD is arguably safer, maybe? BYD has front wheel drive, motor in front and no frunk, to me it's not a deal breaker even if RWD is preferable. Pretty sure Tesla would be more efficient but I haven't checked and that's not a huge deal.
ozzybmx
Not a tree-hugging earth muffin
Missus car. It will suit her driving down to a tee. Her 2011 Prado gets started 12+ times a day and she whinges about fuel prices. The car is getting caned with that amount of starts, replaced started motor and battery recently though has it nearly 200,000km on it... Work (2km) drop kids at gym (4km) Pick up from gym (4km) shops (3km) take kids to work (4km) pick up from work (4km) dog walk (3km) shops (3km).
The car will only be charged at our house.
An electric car is of zero use to me, I have a 4yr old 200LC that I have decided to keep, thus why the missus will get an EV.
Will have a drive tomorrow and see what she thinks. Even if she doesnt like it, she's getting one of the above anyway
Liking new Renault 5, brings back GT Turbo memories from the 90's.
Not yellow though.
Haakon
greenbean counter
Shanghai assembled Teslas are BYD blade batteries.
beeb
Dr. Beebenson, PhD HA, ST, Offset (hons)
I hope that concept is 125% of actual size, or those people in the background are really short. Seems stupid to base a "small" SUV on a classic hot hatch. (No @Haakon hasn't hacked my account!)Missus car. It will suit her driving down to a tee. Her 2011 Prado gets started 12+ times a day and she whinges about fuel prices. The car is getting caned with that amount of starts, replaced started motor and battery recently though has it nearly 200,000km on it... Work (2km) drop kids at gym (4km) Pick up from gym (4km) shops (3km) take kids to work (4km) pick up from work (4km) dog walk (3km) shops (3km).
The car will only be charged at our house.
An electric car is of zero use to me, I have a 4yr old 200LC that I have decided to keep, thus why the missus will get an EV.
Will have a drive tomorrow and see what she thinks. Even if she doesnt like it, she's getting one of the above anyway
Liking new Renault 5, brings back GT Turbo memories from the 90's.
Not yellow though.
View attachment 395143
downunderdallas
Likes Dirt
When did that start, mine are CATL I'm pretty sure but mine is a year old
beeb
Dr. Beebenson, PhD HA, ST, Offset (hons)
Seems illogical abandoning horsepower for cattlepower given the methane emissions of cattle.
downunderdallas
Likes Dirt
Interwebs says still CATL from what I can see:
If the rumor is true, it would mean that Tesla intends to launch an entry-level Tesla Model Y with LFP batteries.
So far, LFP batteries for Tesla cars produced in China and in California were supplied by CATL.
Interestingly, the latest report specifically notes that BYD batteries will not be supplied to the Tesla Giga Shanghai plant. It might be reasonable because the form factors of CATL and BYD battery cells are vastly different, so it would require two different pack manufacturing lines.
insideevs.com
If the rumor is true, it would mean that Tesla intends to launch an entry-level Tesla Model Y with LFP batteries.
So far, LFP batteries for Tesla cars produced in China and in California were supplied by CATL.
Interestingly, the latest report specifically notes that BYD batteries will not be supplied to the Tesla Giga Shanghai plant. It might be reasonable because the form factors of CATL and BYD battery cells are vastly different, so it would require two different pack manufacturing lines.
Report: BYD Reportedly Already Supplies Tesla With Blade Batteries
The rumors about Tesla using BYD's flagship Blade Batteries (long cells, LFP chemistry) are back, but interestingly they are related to Europe.
insideevs.com
ozzybmx
Not a tree-hugging earth muffin
Hmmm... dont think so or they will be 29" wheels.
downunderdallas
Likes Dirt
Mullet?
ozzybmx
Not a tree-hugging earth muffin
27.5 rear for acceleration
It looks small but if it did the 0-100 in sub 5, it would be a fun little car.
I owned a Renault 5 GT turbo for a very short time back in the 90's, got traded for a Fait coupe 20v Turbo... that was a flyer back in those days.
Wish I still had an actual photo of it.
Same car in Sprint Blue.
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