COVID-19: who’s going full doomsday prep on this?

Squidfayce

Eats Squid
Provide actual evidence that the vaccines have caused brain damage, or kindly desist from such nonsense.

while not direct , a study suggests the immune response may be the cause of the brain damage. So one could argue that that may also occur from immune responses triggered by the vaccine. No scientist would make that claim directly though if they wanted anything published or to maintain their reputation. Even if it was true and could be proven objectively, its likely something that wouldn't be publicized for fear of increase in future vaccine hesitance and possible class action activity.

disclaimer - I'm just being a smart arse. I'm jabbed and will continue to listen to the medical and scientific consensus.
 

ForkinGreat

Knows his Brassica oleracea

while not direct , a study suggests the immune response may be the cause of the brain damage. So one could argue that that may also occur from immune responses triggered by the vaccine. No scientist would make that claim directly though if they wanted anything published or to maintain their reputation. Even if it was true and could be proven objectively, its likely something that wouldn't be publicized for fear of increase in future vaccine hesitance and possible class action activity.

disclaimer - I'm just being a smart arse. I'm jabbed and will continue to listen to the medical and scientific consensus.
the study makes no mention of vaccines at all, AFAIK. only immune response to SARS-CoV-2 virus.
All patients died during the first wave of the pandemic from March to July 2020
- so no mention of covid-19 vaccine, as none developed at that point.
N=maybe 50?? subjects. I couldn't open the table showing that data.
Without data sets from vaccinated groups and control (unvaccinated), it's only speculation. no argument can be made, as there is no data to support such a claim at that time.

What was of note was the suggestion that immune modulating treatments be investigated, to ameliorate projected damage from aggressive immune responses to covid. (cytokine storm???)
 

Minlak

custom titis
October 14 - Isolation rules end - Doctors predict significant risk (to their payments for immunisation and testing i suspect)
 

Squidfayce

Eats Squid
the study makes no mention of vaccines at all, AFAIK. only immune response to SARS-CoV-2 virus.

- so no mention of covid-19 vaccine, as none developed at that point.
N=maybe 50?? subjects. I couldn't open the table showing that data.
Without data sets from vaccinated groups and control (unvaccinated), it's only speculation. no argument can be made, as there is no data to support such a claim at that time.

What was of note was the suggestion that immune modulating treatments be investigated, to ameliorate projected damage from aggressive immune responses to covid. (cytokine storm???)
i said it didnt in my post. the smart arsery i was trying to do was that the study says that the immune response is thought to cause it. What does a vaccine do? Causes an immune response. SO one could easily draw similar conclusions without too much mental gymnastics if they felt like getting slammed ;)
 

Haakon

Keeps on digging
Im not feeling too hot still... Just tired - i get to about 3 and need a nanna nap.

I dont think I'll be taking the roadie with me to Germany next week - I think gentle strolls along the Rhine are going to more my speed for a little while. I dont want to overdo and end up wiping myself out when I need to be working!
 

Mr Crudley

Glock in your sock
I dont think I'll be taking the roadie with me to Germany next week - I think gentle strolls along the Rhine are going to more my speed for a little while. I dont want to overdo and end up wiping myself out when I need to be working!
Well, you know what October in Germany means.

Pack the lederhausen and a very large stein instead. Be prepared to join an Oompah band with traditional dancing at a moments notice.
Work be damned..........Europe is big on work + life balance. Don't be the guy that lets them down.
 

pink poodle

気が狂っている男
Im not feeling too hot still... Just tired - i get to about 3 and need a nanna nap.

I dont think I'll be taking the roadie with me to Germany next week - I think gentle strolls along the Rhine are going to more my speed for a little while. I dont want to overdo and end up wiping myself out when I need to be working!
I should mention that when I came out of isolation I ploughed straight into a week of intense work as I planned a trip to Canada (and had just had a week without income etc and was up for a few weeks without I come ) to commence as soon as they would let me in - 11 days from positive PCR...Which I of course didn't have, I used a rat. So then I got a PCR on my first day out of iso, when I should have got one as soon as possible when I was positive. Anyway that week was long days of physical work without breaks. I was totally rooted for it every day. My brain felt like I was 3 joints stoned for it too. Yet while I was "sick" I felt fine and without any symptoms. He guys I worked with who had it se time as me were all really sick with it and similar to myself afterwards. By the time I got to Canada I felt mostly normal.
 

Haakon

Keeps on digging
Yeah, my body does seem to be telling me to just chill for a bit… I’ll go for an experimental cross country style run on the weekend and see what happens.
 

BurnieM

Likes Dirt
I have had 2 Pfizer shots plus a booster Moderna but cannot see the supporting argument for the 4th shot.
Now we have a new bivalent shot (original plus BA1) which is proven not effective against BA4/BA5.
lf it was I would be first in the queue.
Then we have a study that ignores the increase in Covid/flu in winter and comes up with a magic beginning of summer 'new peak'.

'Just have another shot' does not cut it - show me the science.
 

Tubbsy

Packin' a small bird
Staff member
Then we have a study that ignores the increase in Covid/flu in winter and comes up with a magic beginning of summer 'new peak'.

'Just have another shot' does not cut it - show me the science.

This is a good summary of the current state of affairs. I haven't seen any advice glibly saying 'just have another shot', current advice recommends boosters for those over 50 and other vulnerable cohort. It's also not the case that current boosters do nothing at all. Remember it's not all about you, being vaccinate may stop transmission to move vulnerable people.

The virus evolves, vaccines are obviously always going to lag behind.

Re the "magic new summer peak":

The Lancet said:
COVID-19 does not follow the same kind of seasonal pattern as influenza—the spring and summer months still see plenty of transmission. The efficacy of the available COVID-19 vaccines fades within a few months. “If we are giving the vaccine once a year, that would be much easier; we could simply couple it with the flu vaccine”, said Salmon. “But if we have to give repeated doses over the course of the year, then it becomes a trickier matter.”
 

Haakon

Keeps on digging
Off to find an Apototek this morning, see if I can get a test. Hopefully just a few days of travel, fuck all sleep, zero nutrition (German food - saurkraut and sausages are food groups right?) and beers means my immune system has thrown in the towel and it’s a normal cold.

Something like 3-4 weeks since I had covid, so guess it could be round two if I’m unlucky.
 

beeb

Dr. Beebenson, PhD HA, ST, Offset (hons)
I have had 2 Pfizer shots plus a booster Moderna but cannot see the supporting argument for the 4th shot.
Now we have a new bivalent shot (original plus BA1) which is proven not effective against BA4/BA5.
lf it was I would be first in the queue.
Then we have a study that ignores the increase in Covid/flu in winter and comes up with a magic beginning of summer 'new peak'.

'Just have another shot' does not cut it - show me the science.
Australian adults can now get Moderna's Omicron COVID-19 booster - ABC News
Preliminary results showed what ATAGI called "a small incremental benefit" in an immune response against Omicron subvariants BA.1, BA.4 and BA.5.

In a study published in the New England Journal of Medicine, around 800 triple-vaccinated people received either a fourth dose of the original Moderna vaccine or the new combination booster.

Both cohorts made antibodies that could neutralise the ancestral virus and BA.1 — they're similar enough for the original vaccine to generate some antibodies capable of latching onto BA.1 — but those who had the combination booster ended up with an average 1.75 times the BA.1 antibody response after 28 days when compared to the original vaccine group.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/health/...-ba5-subvariants-antibodies-moderna/101170614
The combination shot also gave recipients higher antibody levels against the BA.4 and BA.5 variants, especially if they'd been infected with COVID previously.

Moderna's chief medical officer Paul Burton told the ABC in June that these antibody levels are "guaranteed to correlate with clinical protection against infection and against severe disease".
Once again - it's the R-value that's the real news. Even the original vaccines provided some reduction to the chances of catching and transmitting COVID-19 (Any strain, even the current Omicron variants), but if the R-value (transmission rate) gets high again that increases the chances of another mutation. While the mutations so far have been trending toward more mild disease, there's nothing saying a new variant couldn't carry much worse symptoms or higher fatality rates.
 

BurnieM

Likes Dirt
The currently available Omicron boosters from Moderna and Pfizer are not effective against Omicron BA4/BA5.
The current most common variant is BA5 but it appears this will shortly be overtaken by BA4.6.

While it is possible that Covid could become more virulent it appears to be following the standard pandemic path ie more infectious but less virulent as occurred with the Spanish flu. We will not know until it is all over.

We are out of the emergency stage and all (most) of us have some resistance to Covid thru either natural immunity (we caught it) or vaccination. Very few are now likely to die from Covid. I would like to hear scientific reasons to take more boosters backed up with data from studies.
 
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Tubbsy

Packin' a small bird
Staff member
The currently available Omicron boosters from Moderna and Pfizer are not effective against Omicron BA4/BA5.

Not sure why you're taking such a binary view of the situation. None of the vaccines have promised foolproof immunity.

You're free to make your own choices, but don't make definitive statements if you don't know what you're talking about.
 
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