Car problems, need advice

M

mas2

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Both my cars, 2006 swift and 2012 cx5, within a week of each other are running really jumpy/lumpy at low revs and warming up. We pretty much always use the same servo and I suspect dodgy fuel. The swift got a bit better with one of those octane boosts chucked in and we did the same to the cx5. I also replaced the air filter and cleaned the MAF sensor and throttle body just in case. It's driving a lot nicer now but the engine light is coming on and the OBD is giving me "P0172 System Too Rich (Bank 1)" and wont go away.

I know we have some pretty handy mechanics on here so what should I do brains trust?
Any help would be good.
 
moorey

moorey

call me Mia
Sounds like dodgy fuel to me. Happened here a few months ago. Unfortunately they had a lot of issues and were forced to repair @Hipstar ‘s shitter.
 
Flow-Rider

Flow-Rider

Burner
Water or crap in the fuel maybe, get a clean bucked, remove the fuel filter, shake it up and dump the contents in the bucket and see if you have water droplets or foreign material in there. Water usually sits on the bottom of the tank, if they have a drain plug in the fuel tank, dump a bit of the fuel out and see if it's contaminated. Go back over what you done with the Maf, you might have an air leak or a wiring plug not connecting properly. You can check that the spark plugs aren't fouled up from the running rough too, you might be able to give them a bit of a clean.
 
M

mas2

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Flow-Rider said:
Water or crap in the fuel maybe, get a clean bucked, remove the fuel filter, shake it up and dump the contents in the bucket and see if you have water droplets or foreign material in there. Water usually sits on the bottom of the tank, if they have a drain plug in the fuel tank, dump a bit of the fuel out and see if it's contaminated. Go back over what you done with the Maf, you might have an air leak or a wiring plug not connecting properly. You can check that the spark plugs aren't fouled up from the running rough too, you might be able to give them a bit of a clean.
Click to expand...
I was thinking of running the fuel down real low then filing with 98 and hoping that would clear it out. Is that a bad idea?
 
Flow-Rider

Flow-Rider

Burner
mas2 said:
I was thinking of running the fuel down real low then filing with 98 and hoping that would clear it out. Is that a bad idea?
Click to expand...
If you run the tank low you can run the risk of sucking up all the crap from the fuel into the fuel filter as most of it will be at the bottom of the tank and maybe make things worse The thing is water can also make the paper inside the fuel filter swell up and cause a restriction. It's been a long time but we used to put some methylated spirits in the fuel tank to help disperse the water into the fuel, there's a ratio to fuel amount that's safe to use but I can't remember what it was. If you find water contamination in both cars, the servo will be liable for all repairs.
 
ozzybmx

ozzybmx

taking a shit with my boobs out
Flush, dump and replace the fuel filter.

mas2 said:
I was thinking of running the fuel down real low then filing with 98 and hoping that would clear it out. Is that a bad idea?
Click to expand...
Excellent idea, just what about the proposed bad fuel ?

On a side note, I mis-fueled my new Prado in 2011, went from a Petrol Prado to Diesel, came out of nightshift and put 5L of Premium in it with 800km on the clock, realised what I did, then put 140L of Diesel in on top of it. 2019, 190,000km later, the missus is still driving it. All i did was change the fuel filter on recco from an Toyota mech.
 
Haakon

Haakon

has an accommodating arse
With that code you might have killed an O2 sensor too... By “code won’t go away” do you mean it comes back after being cleared?
 
Flow-Rider

Flow-Rider

Burner
It will be coming up with some type of O2 code if it's failed or out of range. O2 sensors only trim the injection pulse time by something like 5~10%
 
Haakon

Haakon

has an accommodating arse
Flow-Rider said:
It will be coming up with some type of O2 code if it's failed or out of range. O2 sensors only trim the injection pulse time by something like 5~10%
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Or it’s a dead cat... Is bank 1 up or downstream, can’t remember?
 
Haakon

Haakon

has an accommodating arse
The googalator says;

P0172 Causes

Dirty or faulty Mass Air Flow (MAF)sensor
  • Faulty oxygen sensor
  • Leaky fuel injectors allowing too much fuel into the combustion cylinders
  • Worn spark plugs
  • Stuck fuel pressure regulator
  • Faulty coolant temperature sensor
  • Faulty coolant thermostat

If they were mine I’d run the fuel down to close to empty and fill up with known good fuel. If nothing changes after that tank gets used, pull the plugs to see what colour they are and if good change the O2 sensor.
 
Dales Cannon

Dales Cannon

lightbrain about 4pm
Staff member
The Swift of that era had a known issue with an ecu fault causing a rough idle but it is too much of a coincidence with both cars and dirty fuel. Flow is on the money. Best bet is to drain the tanks and clean them and flush the lines and replace the filters.

Have to ask the obvious but all hoses and cables are reset in their right homes after the maf clean? Is your scanner just clearing the code and not the history? You could try the 30 minutes without battery reset after clearing the code.
 
M

mas2

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Dales Cannon said:
The Swift of that era had a known issue with an ecu fault causing a rough idle but it is too much of a coincidence with both cars and dirty fuel. Flow is on the money. Best bet is to drain the tanks and clean them and flush the lines and replace the filters.

Have to ask the obvious but all hoses and cables are reset in their right homes after the maf clean? Is your scanner just clearing the code and not the history? You could try the 30 minutes without battery reset after clearing the code.
Click to expand...
Yep did the maf clean twice now and the cables and hoses are easy to check and see if set wrong. It actually ran really well after the first clean and I would say it is driving pretty good now with only a slight hesitation at idle. But the engine light keeps coming up and after 10 mins of driving it throws the same code. The second time I replaced the air filter and disconnected the battery and it lasted about 20 mins before throwing the code.

Apparently both fuel filters are located inside the fuel tanks and that's getting beyond my pay grade. If it's O2 sensors then they cost $200 for each car. Repairs starting to look expensive...

Running fuel lower and then chucking in something like this is the only thing I can think of.
www.repco.com.au

Rislone Petrol Fuel System Treatment 500mL

It starts with the parts - At Repco we have a wide range of Fuel Additives products. Rislone Petrol Fuel System Treatment 500mL is now available online and at your local Repco store.
www.repco.com.au www.repco.com.au
 
Dales Cannon

Dales Cannon

lightbrain about 4pm
Staff member
Changing in tank filters is ok but be gentle. The screw cap is plastic on a plastic tank. I am thinking it is likely filters are blocked.
 
M

mas2

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Okay might have a case of fake fuel outrage.

Friends borrowed the CX5 2 weeks ago and filled with E10 from a different servo around the corner whereas the swift has only been filled from our normal place the last 4 months. The CX5 still has the code and a little lumpy at idle.

Today in the swift I checked for warning codes and it gave me none. I replaced the air filter, cleaned the MAF sensor, and replaced the spark plugs because they were $4 each. The plugs looked good but the second spark plug was covered in oil and even had oil above it. What does this mean? It felt great to drive though so might be good, we will see. Most importantly I polished its headlights from frosty white to clear giving an 25kw at the wheels.
 
Flow-Rider

Flow-Rider

Burner
mas2 said:
Okay might have a case of fake fuel outrage.

Friends borrowed the CX5 2 weeks ago and filled with E10 from a different servo around the corner whereas the swift has only been filled from our normal place the last 4 months. The CX5 still has the code and a little lumpy at idle.

Today in the swift I checked for warning codes and it gave me none. I replaced the air filter, cleaned the MAF sensor, and replaced the spark plugs because they were $4 each. The plugs looked good but the second spark plug was covered in oil and even had oil above it. What does this mean? It felt great to drive though so might be good, we will see. Most importantly I polished its headlights from frosty white to clear giving an 25kw at the wheels.
Click to expand...
Post a GOOD pic of the old plug. If it's oil then your engine is leaking oil from the valve guides or piston rings in one cylinder.

One tank of e-10 shouldn't do much damage, if you've run a few tanks of it there might be a few possibilities of problems occurring. Can you make the car miss fire under load when it's cold?
 
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