The election thread - Two middle-late aged white men trying to be blokey and convincing..., same old shit, FFS.

[Oddjob]

And a wife who worked for Shell.

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[Litenbror]

Not only is it obscene that there are billionaires, who most certainly are not self made, what's worse is that we hand it to them.

As if Australia needs Gina to sell our natural resources.

Look at Norway and their sovereign wealth fund from their 'super-profits tax' on oil. Currently valued at $1.2 trillion.

Australia's national debt, $1 trillion.

Read a few months ago that the super profits tax put in by Rudd/Gillard would have covered the $400 billion we had to print to get out of COVID. Would have been nice to have had the billionaires pay that bill.

 

[Tubbsy]

Hands up everyone who has an economics degree and has worked in a Treasury.

and who runs a side-hustle in harvested body parts...

 

[moorey]

Hands up everyone who has an economics degree and has worked in a Treasury.

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Lol. You’re not a mechanical engineer or a WC rider, but feel like you can talk about bikes and riding?

 

[Litenbror]

and who runs a side-hustle in harvested body parts...

Hey you told me you turned that camera off!

 

[rockmoose]

I looked into the figures a few years ago, and we would be in the black almost immediately if we went down the transaction tax line.

1% transaction tax on everything. 0.5% payer, 0.5% payee. ALL other taxes, levies etc can be abolished.

Really shows just how much we are getting screwed.

Still need to make sure the big coal companies can't sell their product to a tin shed in the Caymans for pocket change, and immediately sell it back to us for billions, but that shouldn't be too hard to do.

Also, still doesn't solve corrupt governments squandering the money on unnecessary crap.

 

[SummitFever]

Hands up everyone who has an economics degree and has worked in a Treasury.

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Do people seriously admit to this in public?

 

[Oddjob]

Hands up everyone who has an economics degree and has worked in a Treasury.

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If anyone is interested in some interesting tidbits before they get back to slagging each other.

1. Govt expenditure has averaged 25% of GDP for decades in Australia. And yet our GDP has doubled a few times since 2000.

2. Tax policy is fiendishly complex. But we had a best practise review in 2010 with the Henry Tax Review. Have a look at what our tax system should look like.

3. The vast majority of Govt spending is on welfare, education and health. Check out Budget Paper 1 for a breakdown.

4. The Prelude project was always going to be a risky project and it looks like a dead end but impossible to know that 15 years ago, when the project was started. But there are lots of other projects across the economy that don't work out. Should we penalise all of these businesses for trying new things? Incentives matter.

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[Scotty T]

Read a few months ago that the super profits tax put in by Rudd/Gillard would have covered the $400 billion we had to print to get out of COVID. Would have been nice to have had the billionaires pay that bill.

Instead we gave them millions that they didn't need. Good economic managers etc.

 

[Oddjob]

I looked into the figures a few years ago, and we would be in the black almost immediately if we went down the transaction tax line.

1% transaction tax on everything. 0.5% payer, 0.5% payee. ALL other taxes, levies etc can be abolished.

Really shows just how much we are getting screwed.

Still need to make sure the big coal companies can't sell their product to a tin shed in the Caymans for pocket change, and immediately sell it back to us for billions, but that shouldn't be too hard to do.

Also, still doesn't solve corrupt governments squandering the money on unnecessary crap.

That's called a Tobin tax. Highly regressive as it taxes transactions and ignores wealth.

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[Oddjob]

Do people seriously admit to this in public?

You should see what I admit to in private...

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[Oddjob]

Lol. You’re not a mechanical engineer or a WC rider, but feel like you can talk about bikes and riding?

I came 22nd in the 1998 Nationals while doing my double degree at Harvard. Prove me wrong.

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[Scotty T]

Read a few months ago that the super profits tax put in by Rudd/Gillard would have covered the $400 billion we had to print to get out of COVID. Would have been nice to have had the billionaires pay that bill.

Instead we gave them millions that they didn't need. Good economic managers etc.

Also, the number of vox pops I've heard (albeit mostly in safe Lib seats) where the person says "Libs got us through COVID" as if a Labor government would have done something wildly different to make them suffer. It's depressing that people think that bipartisan policy was all the Libs doing.

 

[moorey]

I came 22nd in the 1998 Nationals while doing my double degree at Harvard. Prove me wrong.

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Yep, that's how evidence works.

 

[Squidfayce]

More wages. You do not need more wages. Nor do I. We both own carbon fibre toys worth thousands. Yet we are not rich in the context of Australia.

Hmm subjective. There's more things id like to get out of life that cost money. its not all just about having food and shelter and being grateful for it.

Well I'm assuming a bit here, I dunno if you are a normal above average wage earner with very expensive taste in bikes or you own a business/assets worth millions. On the surface you seem somewhere in between.

I dont own a business, but i do orright. Choices, no kids yadda yadda.

No. This is why we can't have nice things like free basic dental. Tax minimisation is for well off people. They don't need it. I agree with @moorey it's morally bankrupt when people can pay no tax and earn loads, but those people see it as a badge of honour. Greedy cunts.

If youre a healthcare card holder, ie vulnerable or low income, you can get free dental IIRC. if you pay a small amount in private extras as a non vulnerable person (ie you dont really qualify for low income or a health care card) you can get basic dental pretty cheap. Paying zero tax is morally bankrupt sure. I pay taxes, but i disagree with where they go for a large part and KNOW that the government overpays for almost everything. So in quiet protest of that i will minimise where possible, legally, to prevent the govt for litterally wasting a third or more of what i give them. But that doesn't put mean the group of little to zero tax. far from it.

No. This does nothing and is unfair for poor people, we definitely need a sliding tax scale.

spot on

More importantly we need to tax (or stop them avoiding tax) billionaires and huge companies. Rhetoric about companies leaving, well fuck off then.

less funding for services from less taxable employees and any tax the company or its subsidiaries may have been paying. Higher unemployment with higher welfare costs. You say "fuck off", but what happens if you have a family member that needs NDIS and that the first thing that gets cut, or you lose your job and cant get by for a short time on the lower welfare and cant access mental health services because they were cut too? extreme examples but its not simple. I think if the answer was simple, these issues wouldn't exist as they do.

It's obscene that people are billionaires. I saw a post comparing a millionaire to a billionarie in a time scale. A million seconds is 11 days. a billion seconds is 32 years.

i like this one

Visualizing a Billion and a Trillion Dollars

BY MARTIN KICH Any budget number can be made to sound exorbitant if doing so serves a political purpose. But the scope of our governmental budgets, as well as the scope of our economy, has long exc…

academeblog.org

I don't think its obscene that people are billionaires. what they do with their wealth is relevant. Space travel, sanitation in third world, water, energy projects. Just take a look at what some of the billionaires are doing. Shit our government wont. celebrate some of them.

on the flipside you have people like mcaffee who just turned to hookers, guns, blow and private islands - that's a waste of life and resources. Being a billionaire and balling out 100% whats stupid.

 

[Asininedrivel]

Totally wrong question. What we should be asking is "what could they manufacture when we need it?"

Retaining (and building) local capacity is essential. It can't be left to market forces because the market dictates outsourcing to the cheapest supplier. This can only work for so long.

Cars are a pinnacle manufacturing product. They may not seem like it as they are everywhere but the technology and know-how that goes into making them is mind-blowing. They are also a "large" object produced in volume. Being able to make large, complicated things in volume is very important. There is much in a car production line and its supporting local industry that can be quickly repurposed for other manufacturing, but once its gone it is very difficult to restart.

The car industry has been a victim of its own efficiencies and success imo. They have taken what is a fiendishly complex product to make, use and run and been so good at turning it into something so basic that its customers mostly no longer respect them and treat them as disposable whitegoods.

If there was more appreciation for how astronomically difficult it is to engineer a car and bring it to market, arguably we'd have had more public clamour for actually keeping ours rather than the usual "bleurgh subsidies fuck em" that we got instead.

Same ethos as the "milk comes from the supermarket" consumer understanding I guess.

 

[Squidfayce]

Bowed out of attempting to wax lyrically on issues I know nothing about. I'm just saying that Beeb didn't mention deductions, and I don't think he was eluding to that at all, so I'm not sue where you got that.

from the "no exceptions" comment? sounded to me like beeb was suggesting the tax system fix is as simple a s one rate for all and fuck the rest of teh peripheral shit.

 

[Asininedrivel]

I looked into the figures a few years ago, and we would be in the black almost immediately if we went down the transaction tax line.

1% transaction tax on everything. 0.5% payer, 0.5% payee. ALL other taxes, levies etc can be abolished.

Wouldn't that just be another form of increase on the GST? (I have no idea)

 

[Squidfayce]

Look at Norway and their sovereign wealth fund

oof soverign wealth funds. Malaysia had one of those too.

 

[Litenbror]

oof soverign wealth funds. Malaysia had one of those too.

And it was stolen, thats like saying don't put your money in the bank because of bank robbers.